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Scuba Forum / General / December 2004

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How far do you go to dive?

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BllFs6 - 02 Dec 2004 22:04 GMT
Hi all...

Just a random question here.

When all you all go "ocean"  diving "locally".....ie not at springs, not from
the beach, and not at some "exotic" distant vacation destination......how many
miles do you travel in a boat from where you leave the dock to the dive site
itself. Then if you then go to a second site, how far away is it typically from
the first? And do you usually call it a day after the second site, or do you
squeeze in a third or even forth?

And are you typically on a charter boat, your own/friends boat kept at the
harbor, or are you using a trailerable boat? Size of the boat? And how many
days a year do you perform these kinda dives?

Just curious.....

take care and thank gawd the turkey day left overs are about gone :)

Blll
Popeye NCAT3 - 02 Dec 2004 22:17 GMT
>From: bllfs6@aol.com  (BllFs6)

>Hi all...
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>the first? And do you usually call it a day after the second site, or do you
>squeeze in a third or even forth?

Bill, that's just a grandly random question.

 In West Palm, the trip can be as little ad 15 minutes, and as long as an hour
and a half.

 In North Carolina, more like 1.5 hrs minimum.
     

                              Popeye          
      The only working atomic bomb platforms the
      Japanese ever had were delivered via airmail.
BllFs6 - 02 Dec 2004 22:35 GMT
>Bill, that's just a grandly random question.
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>       Japanese ever had were delivered via airmail.
>                  

Thats why Im asking the question!

I know what I do and have somewhat of a feel of what others do around
here....but Im curious about other regions and other divers that I obviously
dont know except for what they post here.

And I am mostly interested in your "typical" dive.....or perhaps your "lower"
50 percent....ie someone might respond like this:

"Well, about half the time we dont go any further than 15 miles to the first
dive site, another 10 to a second site, then we head home"

Something like that....

Oh yeah, of course tell us where your doing the diving, and I'd prefer the
distance, NOT the travel time (I have a reason for this).

take care

Blll
Popeye NCAT3 - 02 Dec 2004 23:49 GMT
>From: bllfs6@aol.com  (BllFs6)

>Oh yeah, of course tell us where your doing the diving, and I'd prefer the
>distance, NOT the travel time (I have a reason for this).

 I know common wrecks out of Morehead City are 16 miles, but us land lubbing
passengers really don't figure it in miles.

 The farthest I I ever went out of West Palm was Jupiter, a different county I
think.

 The boat captains among us would have a much better idea.
     

                              Popeye          
      The only working atomic bomb platforms the
      Japanese ever had were delivered via airmail.
mike gray - 03 Dec 2004 06:39 GMT
>>From: bllfs6@aol.com  (BllFs6)
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>   The farthest I I ever went out of West Palm was Jupiter, a different county I
> think.

Farthest I ever went was from Dania to Bimini. Used to do that trip
regularly until the boat (Good Time Diver) went out of biz.
BllFs6 - 03 Dec 2004 15:18 GMT
Hi guys

thanks for the replies, interesting to read them.

Now, I will tell you a story or 2 and why I asked the question.

Back when I was a rug rat, my dad would take the family out fishing in the
gulf. It was a 24 foot open boat (pro line I think) with of course a pretty
high HP motor on the back. He would head out to the first spot of the day
(typically 10 -20 miles). We would stay for awhile, giving the fish a chance,
and quite often often hit another site a few miles away, then head home in the
evening.

Now, if you substitute diving for fishing (and not staying nearly as long AT a
site), that would be a typical dive scenario for me, and it sounds, a fair
number of people here as well.

But there were some things about those trips that made them less fun than they
coulda been. Since the boat was going fast/planing, you got beat to hell unless
the weather/water was pretty calm. And of course if you were planing in less
than calm weather you also got pretty darn wet. That big a.s motor made ALOT of
noise and burned ALOT of fuel. And I always got the impression that those high
powered outboards werent (still arent?) the most reliable things around
(probably the result of trying to pack alot of HP in relatively lightweight
package).

Well, fast forward a couple decades. This past summer I was at a campground on
a bay with a friend. They had an inflatable Avon boat (you know, like those
Zodiacs that famous french diver dude used). It was a 9 footer with a 4 hp two
stroke hand start motor. I thought it was pretty neat to have boat and motor
that one person could carry and would fit in the trunk of car, but I really
wasnt that interested in actually using it.

Well, I got bored and decided to use it. The top speed of the boat was  only 4
knots, give or take, but the motor was pleasing quite even though it was only
about 3 feet from my ears. It was about 6 miles down to the channel out to
ocean and the intercoastal water way. Immediatly I realized that this way of
traveling was SOOO much nicer than what I had been subjected to as kid, even if
it was a bit slow. I cruised around ALL day, and didnt even finish of a three
gallon tank of fuel. That sure felt good to the old wallet!

There were monster boats zooming past me constantly, costing gawd knows how
much, and some probably burning gallons per minute at full throttle, and here I
am with a few thousand dollar set up, sipping gas, and probably having as much
if not more fun with the cruising I am doing.

And another interesting tidbit. I had my friends little shitzhu dog (with the
short haircut, not the floor mop long hair) George with me. Well, first mate
george, being safety conscious, had his doggy life vest on. And actually, it
wasnt for looks, he barely floated with it ON, so it was something he needed to
wear. He spend most of the time trying to balance on the very bow of the boat.

Now, here I am putting around, surrounded by million dollar boats and jetskis
that cost more than some cars, yet I'm getting all the attention. That little
dog was the best babe magnet on the water!!. Virtually every boat that got
close enough to see the dog had to slow down and get even closer for a better
look. Man, I should got this set up decades ago! George got photos and videos
taken of him all day long by many passing strangers. If anybody here is a dog
lover, I''ll be happy to email you good pic of him on the "high seas".

Anyways, after that trip I realized that going slow wasnt nearly as bad as I
first thought it would be, and in many ways it was much nicer and probably
preferable.

Well, now I aint gonna take a boat like THAT out any distance in the
ocean/gulf, and trying to scuba dive out of it wouldnt be terribly fun either
probably, but it did get me thinking.

IF I had a boat that could manage 6 to 10 knots and be seaworthy, travel times
to a fair bit of my desired diving spots would be acceptable. Sure, I might
spend 2 to 5 hours putting out and putting back (rather than 30 minutes to an
hour and half), but the trip would be more enjoyable and ALOT cheaper.

I dont know about you, but my typical 2 dive charter boat trip takes about half
a day from start to finish, so in theory I still have half a day left. But in
practice, Im usually so tired/mellowed out that nothing much gets done the rest
of the day. So, if I go slow, its gonna take the better part of a day, but I
can spend the time mellowing on the boat there and back, rather than sitting in
the recliner at home watching tv.

Well, I need to run, so I'll finish this post later, but if you do some
research, you might be surprised at how little gas/hp it takes to move even a
decent sized boat if your willing to go slow. I'll give some numbers in the
next post.

take care

Blll
Lee Bell - 03 Dec 2004 15:55 GMT
> But there were some things about those trips that made them less fun than
they
> coulda been. Since the boat was going fast/planing, you got beat to hell
> unless
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> lightweight
> package).

Poor choice of boating day and boat is the reason for getting beat up.  The
old outboards were gas hogs.  The new ones do a whole lot better on gas, a
lot quieter and pretty reliable as well.  Times have changed.

For what it's worth, I presently have 3 registered powerboats.  The biggest,
my 32 foot Island Girl is my transportation to the Bahamas, my fishing and
diving boat while I'm there and my motel room when I'm not doing something
else.  Even with all of that, I have to toss the fun I'm having into the
equation before it's cost effective.  It costs me several dollars to start
the damned thing and a lot more to actually move it somewhere.  Still, we
move it now and then.  We spent 5 days aboard, rafted up with friends, over
thanksgiving.  We cooked the turkey for the third year in a row.

I also have a 15 foot deep V, dual console boat.  It will handle a bit of
chop just fine, better than larger boats with modified V hulls, and with an
85 Yamaha outboard, is both fast and reasonably efficient, at least a lot
more efficient than my 32 footer.  It's not real quiet, but the motor's not
the most current model, either.  This boat is the boat I trailer places like
the Keys.  It's also my fishing and diving boat, but obviously, not my
motel.  I can play pretty much all day on 18 gallons of gas or less.  If I
only had one boat, it would be something a bit larger, but otherwise very
similar to this one.  For those that are going out in any kind of weather at
all, I strongly recommend a deep V or catamaran design (like Karl
mentioned).  Modified V hulls are fast and efficient, but they're not
comfortable in rough seas.

My third boat is an inflatable.  Mine is a RIB, which means it has a hard
bottom and that it won't fit in the back of my car.  If I were big and
strong enough, I could probably put it on the top of my SUV, but it's a lot
easier to get it on and off its trailer.  The boat will handle seas a lot
better than a soft bottom boat like the one you described, which is the only
reason I have the RIB instead of the old inflatable keel boat that preceeded
it.  Mine's got a 25 hp Mercury outboard, which means it's faster than it
ought to be, to the point of being dangerous.  Of course, you don't have to
go full speed all the time.  This boat goes on the back of the big boat (big
to me) and, sometimes, gets to the Keys on the trailer, but only for one or
two day trips.  It's fun, but it's not a fishing boat (hooks and inflatables
are not a combination I like) or much of a dive boat.  We do use it for
snorkeling sometimes.

Lee
TonyP - 04 Dec 2004 00:49 GMT
> But there were some things about those trips that made them less fun than they
> coulda been. Since the boat was going fast/planing, you got beat to hell unless
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> (probably the result of trying to pack alot of HP in relatively lightweight
> package).

Well, on a 60foot ocean going boat, the beating aint that bad. We have
been out in 7footers that made some interesting riding, but I managed to
sleep through most of it. Yes, in the birth, it can be noisey (aluminum
hull), but ear plugs solves that. And I never get wet until dive time. I
don't worry bout maintainance or fuel cost. Just go diving, bbq, have a
lot of laughs and take a nap for the 2hr trip home.

> Anyways, after that trip I realized that going slow wasnt nearly as bad as I
> first thought it would be, and in many ways it was much nicer and probably
> preferable.

For just cruisin', yes. But for diving... nah... Gotta get there and get
wet. And fast.

> I dont know about you, but my typical 2 dive charter boat trip takes about half
> a day from start to finish, so in theory I still have half a day left. But in
> practice, Im usually so tired/mellowed out that nothing much gets done the rest
> of the day. So, if I go slow, its gonna take the better part of a day, but I
> can spend the time mellowing on the boat there and back, rather than sitting in
> the recliner at home watching tv.

I am up at 4am. At the dock by 5am (have to walk the dog, load up the
mini van and the 20 min ride to the dock). Boat leaves at 6am. We are
back at dock by about 4pm latest. A 12hour day for me. I love getting
away from "it all" one day a week. And I have the best naps out on the
ocean.

> Well, I need to run, so I'll finish this post later, but if you do some
> research, you might be surprised at how little gas/hp it takes to move even a
> decent sized boat if your willing to go slow. I'll give some numbers in the
> next post.

I am sure pushing that 60 footer at 15+ knots consumes a lot of fuel.
But, the guy who owns the boat is already a millionaire. He isn't doing
it for the money (although having the boat pay for itself is part of
it), but he too likes to get "away from it all". And, he likes us.
Karl Denninger - 04 Dec 2004 01:26 GMT
>> But there were some things about those trips that made them less fun
>than they
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>don't worry bout maintainance or fuel cost. Just go diving, bbq, have a
>lot of laughs and take a nap for the 2hr trip home.

Depends on the 7 footers.

Try that in the gulf and you will get your a.s kicked in.

In the Atlantic, most of the time that ain't bad conditions.  

Waves are much more than just size.  Its also period and steepness of the
face.  Huge rolling swells are not a problem at all.  A short-period
5-foot sea like we get over here is not comfortable even in a 60 footer.

--
Signature

Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net    My home on the net - links to everything I do!
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Joe English - 02 Dec 2004 23:57 GMT
>>Bill, that's just a grandly random question.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> Blll

I wait and go to warm water - typically once a year.  This year it is a
cruise to the eastern caribbean - never been there. Don't particularly
like doing the cruise.

For what I am going to spend - I go do Coz top notch for a month!
Whistler - 03 Dec 2004 16:41 GMT
>>From: bllfs6@aol.com  (BllFs6)
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
>   In North Carolina, more like 1.5 hrs minimum.

Too bad he didn't ask about driving time.  Much more interesting question.
Popeye NCAT3 - 03 Dec 2004 19:16 GMT
>From: Whistler whiNstOler@sSan.rPr.cAomM
>Date: 12/3/2004 11:41 AM Eastern Standard Time
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
>Too bad he didn't ask about driving time.  Much more interesting question.

How far would you drive....
     

                              Popeye          
      The only working atomic bomb platforms the
      Japanese ever had were delivered via airmail.
Lee Bell - 03 Dec 2004 19:53 GMT
So far, about 250 miles (cave country and manatee river).  Normally, about
40 (Boynton).

Lee

Signature

_______________________________
The Ten Commandments were removed from the Alabama Supreme Court building
for good reason.  You can't display "Thou Shalt Not Steal, Thou Shalt Not
Commit Adultery or Thou Shalt Not Lie" in a building full of lawyers and
politicians without creating a hostile work environment.

> >From: Whistler whiNstOler@sSan.rPr.cAomM
>>Date: 12/3/2004 11:41 AM Eastern Standard Time
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>       The only working atomic bomb platforms the
>       Japanese ever had were delivered via airmail.
Grumman-581 - 03 Dec 2004 21:17 GMT
> So far, about 250 miles (cave country and manatee river).  Normally, about
> 40 (Boynton).

Yeah, rub it in... I ended up putting 3000 miles on my truck between here,
the Keys, and back...
nitespark - 02 Dec 2004 22:28 GMT
> Hi all...
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> the first? And do you usually call it a day after the second site, or do you
> squeeze in a third or even forth?

When I have dove Virginia Beach, the boat generally goes 5-20 miles out
the times I have been on it.  I have been on the "Miss Lindsey" which is
about 65 ft and the "Miss Lauren" which is smaller.

When diving Morehead City/Beaufort NC, the boats are typically 65 foot
and we go anywhere from 30-40 miles out.  Usually do the far dive first
and hit the second one on the way in.

> And are you typically on a charter boat, your own/friends boat kept at the
> harbor, or are you using a trailerable boat? Size of the boat? And how many
> days a year do you perform these kinda dives?

I have gone on boat trips both ways.  Sometime the LDS charters a boat,
sometimes I just show up and dive what is offered.
TonyP - 02 Dec 2004 23:25 GMT
> When all you all go "ocean"  diving "locally".....ie not at springs, not from
> the beach, and not at some "exotic" distant vacation destination......how many
> miles do you travel in a boat from where you leave the dock to the dive site
> itself. Then if you then go to a second site, how far away is it typically from
> the first? And do you usually call it a day after the second site, or do you
> squeeze in a third or even forth?

The trips I do (LI/NY/NJ) are usually all off shore. Average about
20-30+ miles from the dock. It takes approx. 2 hours to arrive at the
dive site (wrecks). We tie in and do 2 dives with 2hr SI. Then, bbq,
adult beverages (not for me), and the fun. Or, in my case.. a nice nap.
Sometimes we go to another dive site, but usually just one.

> And are you typically on a charter boat, your own/friends boat kept at the
> harbor, or are you using a trailerable boat? Size of the boat? And how many
> days a year do you perform these kinda dives?

Charter. A group of us charter from June to Sept every Sunday. Boat is
60' ocean going dive boat custom made. Sleeps 10, microwave, oven, stove
2 heads, CG rated for 70+ people. Before "our" dive boat hits the water,
we start diving on other boarts in April. Dive season continues until
Late Nov. We have dove into Dec... chipping off ice and stuff. Water
temp is still in the low 50's. Vis is outstanding. Air temp is another
story....
Lee Bell - 03 Dec 2004 01:56 GMT
in message news:20041202170458.07586.00001663@mb-m01.aol.com...
> Hi all...
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> many
> days a year do you perform these kinda dives?

I dive in S. Florida.  For charter boats, the car drive is further than the
boat ride.  Most of what I do is within 5 miles of shore and no more than
that north or south of the inlet.  When I'm diving from the larger of my own
boats, which is the one I usually use here, I have about a 5 mile ride just
to the ocean.  From there, again, the sites are all within a few miles.
When I trailer the smaller boat to the Keys, I'm more likely to travel
further.  We normally stay on the Bay side for the protected boating, but
dive on the ocean side, for the quality of diving.  We often travel further
to get to the sites in the Keys, but usually don't venture far from shore.

If cost is the point of all of this, it's more expensive for me to take the
big boat diving than it is to pay for a two tank dive on a commercial
charter, by a substantial margin.  At today's prices and a gallon plus per
mile, it's expensive to move the big boat at all.  The reverse is true of
the trailerable boat.  I can dive all day for less than I pay for a
commerical charter.

When I pay for a commercial charter, I do two dives per trip, each of which
is about an hour.  When I'm on my own boat, it's more common for a dive to
be incidental to something else, like fishing or cruising.  I often only do
one.  I almost never do two in one trip, but sometimes do make more than one
trip a day.

Lee
Cpt. Dale Bennett - 03 Dec 2004 04:24 GMT
> Hi all...
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Blll

I operate a charter boat out of the Port of Waukegan, Illinois on Lake
Michigan.  A typical trip for me is 10 to 12 miles out to the first dive
site.  We usually do two dives per trip, it could be two on the same wreck,
or a second dive near the first or on the way home.  We do travel to do the
wreck of the "Straits of Mackinac," an old coal-fired ferry that was sunk
off of Evanston.  That is 24 miles from our port, so it is an all day trip.
We usually stop to do a dive on the St. Mary, a schooner, at the half-way
point for the first dive; we do two dives on the Straits of Mackinac, and
then a dive half-way back on the Lady Elgin, a side-wheeler.

My boat, Enterprise, is a 42 foot steel trawler.  We go out every Saturday
and Sunday (and week days when we have passengers) from March to November.

Signature

Safe diving,

Dale Bennett
Captain Dale's, Inc.
Enterprise Marine, Inc., Dive Charters

Karl Denninger - 03 Dec 2004 05:10 GMT
>Hi all...
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
>Blll

Depends.

We're over in the Northern Gulf (near Destin) and I have two boats - a
midsize (45') sportfish, and a smaller (22') power cat.

The big boat costs quite a bit to run, especially given that fuel has
almost doubled in cost over the last year.  That has sucked.  

Usually, if we've got 4 or more, we take the big boat.  Its much niceer
although slower.  We typically will run 20ish miles offshore to get to the
first dive, and do 2 or 3 total depending on who's on board, what they
want to do, etc.  Sometimes, depending on whos' going and what everyone
wants to do, we will run further (30+ miles) to get to the first site, but
that is not too common.

We usually do our first dive at the furthest out site and then work our
way in, diving on whatever we run over on the way.  As some sites may have
fishermen on them who don't want to be reasonable, we will often alter our
plan once on the water depending on conditions and how crowded specific
sites may be.

If its just me and a buddy, or just me, I'll take the GB.  The 22 runs
four times as far on a gallon of fuel, but the fuel is gas and thus more
expensive than the diesel.  It also doesn't carry as many people, and has
zero facilities for comfort really.  However, it is a bit faster, and
handles rough water very well.

The tougher one is 3 people.  That's tight on the little boat but doable,
but expensive on the big one.  We usually do the little one.

--
Signature

Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net    My home on the net - links to everything I do!
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mike gray - 03 Dec 2004 06:37 GMT
> Hi all...
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> the first? And do you usually call it a day after the second site, or do you
> squeeze in a third or even forth?

In the Ft. Lauderdale/Boynton area, you first have to get from the
marina to the ocean, usually about 20 minutes up or down the
Intracoastal. The reef's only a mile out but you might run five or six
miles north or south to get to the site you want. You might run for
30-40 minutes and end up just a mile east of the marina.

Most diving here is two-tank, two sites. Most boats do a morning trip
and an afternoon trip, and an evening trip if there are enough divers to
justify all three. Get in six dives if yer serious.

> And are you typically on a charter boat, your own/friends boat kept at the
> harbor, or are you using a trailerable boat? Size of the boat? And how many
> days a year do you perform these kinda dives?

I've done a lot of diving from friends' boats, but it's a major hassle.
I want to dive, not maintain a damn boat. You see quite a few divers on
their own/friends boats but I'd guess charter boats have 70-80% of the
divers.

Most of the locals I know get in about 90 dives a year. My peak year was
163. One year I only did 50 (back problems), and this year won't be much
more than that.
Rich Lockyer - 03 Dec 2004 09:17 GMT
BllFs6 wrote:

> Hi all...
>
> Just a random question here.
>
> When all you all go "ocean"  diving "locally".....ie not at springs, not from
> the beach, and not at some "exotic" distant vacation destination......how many

60 miles from my place to my buddy's house.

> miles do you travel in a boat from where you leave the dock to the dive site
> itself.

Anywhere from 30 to 60 miles.

>Then if you then go to a second site, how far away is it typically from
> the first? And do you usually call it a day after the second site, or do you
> squeeze in a third or even forth?

Depends.  Sometimes all 2 or 3 dives will be on the same spot, but
we'll usually do one lobster hunt and one dive elsewhere... refill one
of the tanks and do two more dives the following day.  Dive sites are
generally within 5 miles of the mooring or overnight anchorage, but
occasionally as far as 20.

> And are you typically on a charter boat, your own/friends boat kept at the
> harbor, or are you using a trailerable boat? Size of the boat? And how many
> days a year do you perform these kinda dives?

One of my buddy's three boats, kept at the dock in his "back yard" (he
lives on the harbor)  32' Bayliner, 22' Whaler (Revenge 22), and a 13'
Whaler.  The 13 gets towed behind the Bayliner when it's a full family
trip, then we use it to dive and leave the Bayliner on anchor or the
mooring.

Wow... how many days?  As many as possible, but not nearly enough.
I generally log between 25 and 40 dives a year.  Figure 8 of those
will be vacation dives at a resort, so 17-32 dives with my buddy,
average 3 dives a trip, so anywhere from 4-11 trips a year.

 --- Rich
 http://richlockyer.tripod.com/
chilly - 03 Dec 2004 12:37 GMT
(snip)> I've done a lot of diving from friends' boats, but it's a major
hassle.
> I want to dive, not maintain a damn boat. (snip)

I was just trying to explain that sort of thinking to a friend of mine last
evening at dinner.  He was trying to explain why it would be a good idea for
3 good friends (who don't live in the same cities or on the coast) to buy a
fishing boat that they could keep out at the West Coast.  He said it was
good value for them because they take a couple of fishing trips together
each year . . .

Uh, yeah . . .right.
mike gray - 03 Dec 2004 14:57 GMT
> (snip)> I've done a lot of diving from friends' boats, but it's a major
> hassle.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Uh, yeah . . .right.

Amen. By the time you buy a boat, find a place to keep it (if you can),
do all the maintenance, you've become a boater and have no time or money
left for fishing or diving.

Pay a charter and leave the hassles to them.
Karl Denninger - 03 Dec 2004 14:58 GMT
>> (snip)> I've done a lot of diving from friends' boats, but it's a major
>> hassle.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>Pay a charter and leave the hassles to them.

Around here if you'd actually like to dive something other than the bridge
rubble you better own your own boat.

The local charters are more focused on their wallets than your diving -
understandable, but damn boring after a few trips.

--
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mike gray - 04 Dec 2004 00:51 GMT
>>Pay a charter and leave the hassles to them.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> The local charters are more focused on their wallets than your diving -
> understandable, but damn boring after a few trips.

Move to SoFla. Cheaper than buying, docking, operating, and maintaining
a boat.
Scott - 04 Dec 2004 00:59 GMT
> >>Pay a charter and leave the hassles to them.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Move to SoFla. Cheaper than buying, docking, operating, and maintaining
> a boat.

Maybe, but then you have to live in south Fla.

You can have my issue.
mike gray - 04 Dec 2004 01:18 GMT
>> > Around here if you'd actually like to dive something other than the
> bridge
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Maybe, but then you have to live in south Fla.

". . . . so the guy says, 'I have some good news, and I have some bad
news.  .  .  .  .  '".
Scott - 04 Dec 2004 01:46 GMT
> ". . . . so the guy says, 'I have some good news, and I have some bad
> news.  .  .  .  .  '".

"The bad news is that I did your momma. The good news is that I am your
Dad."
mike gray - 04 Dec 2004 03:50 GMT
>> ". . . . so the guy says, 'I have some good news, and I have some bad
>> news.  .  .  .  .  '".
>
> "The bad news is that I did your momma. The good news is that I am your
> Dad."

***** (five stars)
Scott - 04 Dec 2004 04:06 GMT
> >> ". . . . so the guy says, 'I have some good news, and I have some bad
> >> news.  .  .  .  .  '".
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> ***** (five stars)

It was for you, man.
Matthias Voss - 05 Dec 2004 19:01 GMT
>>>>". . . . so the guy says, 'I have some good news, and I have some bad
>>>>news.  .  .  .  .  '".
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> It was for you, man.

Only knowing the difference qualifies for qualifying statements.

Matthias
Karl Denninger - 04 Dec 2004 01:31 GMT
>>>Pay a charter and leave the hassles to them.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>Move to SoFla. Cheaper than buying, docking, operating, and maintaining
>a boat.

I don't know about that.  SoFla is not a cheap place to live.  At all.

Besides, I don't like charter operators most of the time.  They don't go
where I want, when I want, and they want this f.cking nuisance plastic
card crap to be flashed before they'll let me on board for their trips.

On my own boat all that crap goes away.  I fill my own tanks with my own
mixes in my garage as I decide, not some faceless ninny in a shop, haul
them to my boat, go when I want, where I want, dive whatever the hell
profile I want, stay down as long as I want and bring whatever the f.ck 
I want (like my scooter, for example) - and nobody gives me any sh.t 
about any of it.

If I could buy "water taxi" service I might consider your suggestion.
However, that ain't possible - especally down in SE Florida or the Keys.

Indeed, my last Keys trip convinced me that I need to either drag my
little boat down there next time or DRIVE my big one down and there hook
up to one of the Duane's moorings while we dive the hell out of it for
about a week straight - or until my O2 bottles for mixing are all dry :->

After you've done that for a while your answer to some ninny in a shop who
wants to see you flash any plastic other than Visa, Master Card, Discover
or Amex to buy gas, a trip, or whatever else is likely to be the one-finger
salute.

I know that's what my response is these days.

--
Signature

Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net    My home on the net - links to everything I do!
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mike gray - 04 Dec 2004 03:58 GMT
> I don't know about that.  SoFla is not a cheap place to live.  At all.

Actually, I find it cheap to live here. And no income tax.

> Besides, I don't like charter operators most of the time.  They don't go
> where I want, when I want, and they want this f.cking nuisance plastic
> card crap to be flashed before they'll let me on board for their trips.

Only because they don't know ya and you look suspicious.

> On my own boat all that crap goes away.  I fill my own tanks with my own
> mixes in my garage as I decide, not some faceless ninny in a shop, haul
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> If I could buy "water taxi" service I might consider your suggestion.
> However, that ain't possible - especally down in SE Florida or the Keys.

The Keys and SoFla are different worlds. In the Keys you can find taxi
service but it's not easy. In SoFla, most (not all) captains greet the
divers with "Where do ya want to go today"

> Indeed, my last Keys trip convinced me that I need to either drag my
> little boat down there next time or DRIVE my big one down and there hook
> up to one of the Duane's moorings while we dive the hell out of it for
> about a week straight - or until my O2 bottles for mixing are all dry :->

Like I said, the Keys . . .

> After you've done that for a while your answer to some ninny in a shop who
> wants to see you flash any plastic other than Visa, Master Card, Discover
> or Amex to buy gas, a trip, or whatever else is likely to be the one-finger
> salute.
>
> I know that's what my response is these days.

That's the problem these days, too few divers with too little milk of
human kindness.
Karl Denninger - 04 Dec 2004 05:21 GMT
>> I don't know about that.  SoFla is not a cheap place to live.  At all.
>
>Actually, I find it cheap to live here. And no income tax.

No income tax here either (still in FL) - and a LOT cheaper to live up
here.  Oh, and we're not NYC South (sorry, but SE Fl IS - been there,
hated it - I'd commit hari-kari if I had to live there) :)

Among other things, its way too damn crowded down there.

>> Besides, I don't like charter operators most of the time.  They don't go
>> where I want, when I want, and they want this f.cking nuisance plastic
>> card crap to be flashed before they'll let me on board for their trips.
>
>Only because they don't know ya and you look suspicious.

I dunno.  If you see me in my gear I look like pretty much anyone else
who's sorted out.

>> On my own boat all that crap goes away.  I fill my own tanks with my own
>> mixes in my garage as I decide, not some faceless ninny in a shop, haul
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>service but it's not easy. In SoFla, most (not all) captains greet the
>divers with "Where do ya want to go today"

Well, ok.  I'll take your word for it.

>> Indeed, my last Keys trip convinced me that I need to either drag my
>> little boat down there next time or DRIVE my big one down and there hook
>> up to one of the Duane's moorings while we dive the hell out of it for
>> about a week straight - or until my O2 bottles for mixing are all dry :->
>
>Like I said, the Keys . . .

Yeah.  Big surprise on the last trip was that there were only a few ops
who had a sh.t about doubles.  Bad news was that there was only one place
I found that could fill them (and knew what PP mixing - and O2 clean
gas - was)  They weren't cheap (or even reasonable) either.  At least they
didn't pitch a bitch about me not having those stupid fluorescent "Nitrox"
stickers on the tanks...  They DID pitch a fit about my desire to sling a
bottle of 50% though....  barf.

>> After you've done that for a while your answer to some ninny in a shop who
>> wants to see you flash any plastic other than Visa, Master Card, Discover
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>That's the problem these days, too few divers with too little milk of
>human kindness.

I generally react as I am treated.  Treat me like a child and you'll find
out that I'm one really rude kid.

Treat me like a customer who wants to buy something from you and we'll get
along a LOT better.  When it comes to diving all I want is to buy gas at a
reasonable price and pay for a taxi ride to whatever site we're dropping
in on today.  If you've got a particular protocol for where/how you're
diving, tell me BEFORE I get on board so I can bring whatever I might
need/want to make my life (and yours) easier, and so I can leave any
extra sh.t I won't need at home.

Oh yeah, and don't try to run me over with the damn boat.  If I'm
intending to spear I WILL be carrying a powerhead, and if your boat looks
like its reasonably-well built (and won't be holed) I'll blast your
sounder's transducer with it if you try. :->

--
Signature

Karl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
http://www.denninger.net    My home on the net - links to everything I do!
http://scubaforum.org        Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING!
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Lee Bell - 03 Dec 2004 15:37 GMT
> Amen. By the time you buy a boat, find a place to keep it (if you can), do
> all the maintenance, you've become a boater and have no time or money left
> for fishing or diving.

Absolutely correct.

> Pay a charter and leave the hassles to them.

Actually, I prefer to guide my own fishing trips.  Charters are OK,
particularly for those that don't have much of clue where or how to fish the
surrounding waters, but they are expensive and go where they want, not
necessarily where I want.  If I did not own my own boats, I'd look into one
of the clubs that handle storage and maintenance for you.  They charge for
the service, but for the occasional boater, it's quite a bit less expensive
than owning the boat yourself.  There's an added advantage.  You can do more
than go fishing.  You can combine a dive trip, with a picnic, with a fishing
trip, with an overnight stay (with some clubs), etc.  If you chose your club
wisely, you can do quite well.  If you don't chose wisely, you're not going
to like the results.

Lee
Scott McFadden - 03 Dec 2004 21:18 GMT

> Amen. By the time you buy a boat, find a place to keep it (if you can),
> do all the maintenance, you've become a boater and have no time or money
> left for fishing or diving.

Capt Bishop's rules for newbie boaters (circa 1985).

1.--"The less boat you buy, the more time and money you will have left
available to enjoy using it".

2.--"Put the max HP (per spec's) on her because fishermen and divers
carry all sorts of heavy crap and you don't want to be dealing with an
angry ocean/inlet in some pot-walloping tug boat. Furthermore, this is
Fla and those extra ponies can zoom you away from t-storms you might
otherwise not escape. Finally, you won't need to run WOT all the time
to get a swift crusing speed, thus extending the engine's life
considerably."

3.--"Buy the best make of boat/engine (Whaler/Edgewater/GW & a Yamaha
OB for example) you can afford as it will hold its resale value
better, be "easier" (aka "popular" among knowledgeable boaters) to
sell, and most importantly, see less, if any, time at the repair
shop."

Sage advice from an veteran Captain that worked for me.

> Pay a charter and leave the hassles to them.

Folks must realize there are more scuba charters than mini-mart stores
in SE FL and the Keys.

That is not the case elsewhere.
--
SJM
chilly - 03 Dec 2004 12:37 GMT
> Most diving here is two-tank, two sites. Most boats do a morning trip
> and an afternoon trip, and an evening trip if there are enough divers to
> justify all three. Get in six dives if yer serious.

Let's not even discuss what is involved if a person or two are staying in
Ft. Lauderdale and have to drive up to the marina every am.

> > And are you typically on a charter boat, your own/friends boat kept at the
> > harbor, or are you using a trailerable boat? Size of the boat? And how many
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> 163. One year I only did 50 (back problems), and this year won't be much
> more than that.

Wassamatta fo you? Your back?  :^(
mike gray - 03 Dec 2004 14:53 GMT
> Wassamatta fo you? Your back?  :^(

Naw, long list of other excuses, plus some loss of passion for diving.
chilly - 03 Dec 2004 15:39 GMT
> > Wassamatta fo you? Your back?  :^(
>
> Naw, long list of other excuses, plus some loss of passion for diving.

:^(
FreeFloat - 03 Dec 2004 19:46 GMT
> > Wassamatta fo you? Your back?  :^(
>
> Naw, long list of other excuses, plus some loss of passion for diving.

Loss of passion?  How long you been diving?  (worried about what might be in
my future too)
Rich Lockyer - 04 Dec 2004 08:57 GMT
>I've done a lot of diving from friends' boats, but it's a major hassle.
>I want to dive, not maintain a damn boat. You see quite a few divers on
>their own/friends boats but I'd guess charter boats have 70-80% of the
>divers.

That's why you never buy your own boat.
It's always better to have friends with boats.  Once every 3 years you
head over to the dry dock with a case of Bud Light and help him paint
the bottom and fix all of the stuff you broke.

Between working on his boat and working on his house, my buddy pretty
much owes me free dive trips (no paying for gas OR beer) for the next
10 years.

 --- Rich
 http://richlockyer.tripod.com/
FreeFloat - 03 Dec 2004 20:03 GMT
> Hi all...
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Blll

'Local' for me means crossing the city just to get to the nearest puddle
deep enough to submerge in.  That drive will eat up 40 to 90 minutes
depending on traffic.  If I want an equally empty but deeper site I drive an
hour the other direction.

Of course, for 3 hours' driving east, I can dive in Kingston/Brockville and
the St Lawrence, which is much much better by far.........

FreeFloat
Chris - 04 Dec 2004 02:26 GMT
> Hi all...
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> you
> squeeze in a third or even forth?

It's three hours from my house to the docks.  From there its a 2-3 hour ride
out to the oil rigs.  ( Usually 35-40nm).  Dive one is followed by a an hour
or two of surface interval then dive two.   We do both dives within the same
general area.  When we get back we clean up the boat and put it back in
storage.   I get up at 3am hit the road and I'm usually back by 11pm.
 
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