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Scuba Forum / General / November 2003Diver Dies in Costa Rica, Why?
During one of my recent dives in Costa Rica a guy in our group died... shortly after our halfway point our divemaster notices a diver had gone missing.. one guy in our group a PADI instructor watched the guy swim off without telling him we were turning around.. He said it wasn't his responsibility.. So anyway the divemaster decided not to surface after one minute of looking (which from my understanding is standard procedure)nor did he let any of us know the guy was missing.. This is all kinda strange seeing that we are diving in a remote location (Bat islands-islas murcialagos) with big bull sharks, swells, waves, current and the mainland is about 1-2 miles away. In my opinion kinda dangerous. So we surface and i find out the guy is gone.. in disbeliefe that we were never even asked to do a search.. we were more than capable the group consisted of one rescue diver being me 2 dive masters and a instructor all PADI. We finally make it aboard the boat where our divemaster isn't t concearned about the missing diver... i don't know if this is due to complacency or what.. As soon as the captain puts the boat in drive we lose power to the prop and we are dead in the water... I asked for binoculars so i could get a visual on the missing diver.. the divemaaster tells me it is the guys fault for getting lost and ignores my comment about the binoculars... come to find out he didn't even pack binoculars cpr/first aid kit.. no emergency air and he wasn't even a certified divemaster which we were told he was.. Thats what we paid for! So about 15-20 minutes goes by before a call to other boats is put in to look for our missing diver... We ended up finding his bcd/tank and fins... did a couple searches and turned up nothing.... after that we spent a couple hours driving around in the ocean looking for him and nothing..... So the next day comes around and a friend of mine working at the dive shop asks me to go with them to search once again (expecting to find the guy floating around in the ocean somewhere) I went with.. We went straight back to the islands made a feww passes and we were told not to go in the water where we found the bc/tank/fins... seems a little odd.. i thought thats was the first place you were supposed to look.... an hour or 2 later a couple of snorkelers found him and we did the recovery.. he was liying on the bottom in a narrow channel to dangerous to check the previous day with his mask around his neck and donning his weightbelt.... THE REASON I AM WRITING THIS IS TO FIND OUT WETHER OR NOT ANY OF YOU THINK I SHOULD REPORT IT TO PADI the divemaster was a divemaster in training with no certification and his instructor wasn't aboard the boat. I did submit an incident report but that was before i found out the divemaster wasn't certified and that no emergency equipment was packed... > During one of my recent dives in Costa Rica a guy in our group died... > shortly after our halfway point our divemaster notices a diver had [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > that was before i found out the divemaster wasn't certified and that > no emergency equipment was packed... Yes ,the charter, the resort etc. How can you be sure this wasn't a suicide? Toto > shortly after our halfway point our divemaster notices a diver had > gone missing.. one guy in our group a PADI instructor watched the guy > swim off without telling him we were turning around.. He said it > wasn't his responsibility.. So anyway the divemaster decided not to > surface after one minute of looking (which from my understanding is > standard procedure)... we were never even asked to do a search.. we were more > than capable the group consisted of one rescue diver being me 2 dive > masters and a instructor all PADI. We finally make it aboard the boat [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > odd.. i thought thats was the first place you were supposed to > look.... Hell yes Report them, they broke quite a few different procedures. They should be kicked out of PADI, defrocked or Defenestrated as incompetent bastards. rhys Personaly i don't think it was a suicide... i wouldn't think someone trying to commit suicide would surface first. but i don't know. I think after bobbing around in shark infested waters in the middle of no where with no boat or other divers in sight for who knows how long he probably freaked out ditched his gear in an attempt to get on the rocky island and totaly forgot about his weatbelt... the guy was using rented equipment and perhaps was acustomed to not using a belt... i saw a girl in a rescue class 2 weeks later almost do the same thing before i brought the weight belt to her attention... I guess anything could have happened but it doesn't change the fact that the uncertified DM never looked for the guy or surfaced... as well as forgetting any and all emergency equpiment other than the radio.. and basicly acting as if he didn't care when i told him we needed to find the missing diver. I guess all i really need to know is what is required of PADI DM's/dive boats -Can a divemaster in training work as a divemaster without any supervision? -Is cpr/first aid equipment / O2 required to be on the boat when diving in remote areas? -Do PADI DM's have to obide by the search for one minute and surface rule when they lose a diver? > I guess all i really need to know is what is required of PADI > DM's/dive boats That they fix coffee and hump tanks. Only the dead depend on DM's for anything but coffee. Let us know what your wife's phone number is. There's only one way to comfort a new widow. What's her name?  Signature"Let's roll!" -Todd Beamer, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > ? I guess all i really need to know is what is required of PADI > ? DM's/dive boats [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > What's her name? Your bi? I never would of thought after all these years? Or has GUE made rules no homo's allowed? Seems the private lessons are paying off. Toto Jammer Six <jammer@invalid.oz.net> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :There's only one way to comfort a new widow. Give her a domain name? Dan Bracuk If at first you don't succeed, you run the risk of failure. The Best of rec.scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/ > Jammer Six <jammer@invalid.oz.net> pounded away at his keyboard > resulting in: > :There's only one way to comfort a new widow. > > Give her a domain name? If I ever felt the need to hand out a Laugh of the Day award, you'd get it! Check that, that's a Laugh of the Week. Dave. In article <glsqb.207318$0v4.16382680@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Limey Dave <davidflies@worldnonet.crapatt.net> wrote: > If I ever felt the need to hand out a Laugh of the Day award, you'd get it! > Check that, that's a Laugh of the Week. There is only one who awards the real Laugh of the Day, and if an imposter were to try to award a counterfit LOTD, we would be forced to report it. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > In article > <glsqb.207318$0v4.16382680@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Limey > Dave <davidflies@worldnonet.crapatt.net> wrote: > > ? If I ever felt the need to hand out a Laugh of the Day award, you'd get it! > ? Check that, that's a Laugh of the Week. > > There is only one who awards the real Laugh of the Day, and if an > imposter were to try to award a counterfit LOTD, we would be forced to > report it. But would you report it accurately? Are you certified to report? > > There is only one who awards the real Laugh of the Day, and if an > > imposter were to try to award a counterfit LOTD, we would be forced to > > report it. > > But would you report it accurately? Are you certified to report? Judging by the standard set so recently, I would be an instant expert, with no training, and very little experience. Just like a PADI DM. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > ? > There is only one who awards the real Laugh of the Day, and if an > ? > imposter were to try to award a counterfit LOTD, we would be forced to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Just like a PADI DM. Hmm, I'll have a coffee, black, hot and right f'n now. > Hmm, I'll have a coffee, black, hot and right f'n now. My kind of woman... Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > ? Hmm, I'll have a coffee, black, hot and right f'n now. > > My kind of woman... I've told you that before, but you keep forgetting. ;^) Jammer Six <jammer@invalid.oz.net> wrote in news:bofnh2$bur$0@ 216.39.146.232 : >> Hmm, I'll have a coffee, black, hot and right f'n now. > > My kind of woman... Bah, coffee is for strokes. ;-) And I wouldn't trust a DM to prepare a decent green tea. SignatureDavid Scarlett dscarlett@_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ optusnet.com.au > In article > <glsqb.207318$0v4.16382680@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Limey > Dave <davidflies@worldnonet.crapatt.net> wrote: > > ? If I ever felt the need to hand out a Laugh of the Day award, you'd get it! > ? Check that, that's a Laugh of the Week. > > There is only one who awards the real Laugh of the Day, and if an > imposter were to try to award a counterfit LOTD, we would be forced to > report it. I like being reported. Let me know if you do it, I'm keeping a running total. Dave. > I guess all i really need to know is what is required of PADI DM's/dive boats PADI? Dive boats? What in the Hell are you talking about? A dive boat is subject to Coast Guard Regulations, in this case Costa Rica's, not some US based, scuba certifying agency. > -Can a divemaster in training work as a divemaster without any > supervision? I can work as a "divemaster" on a boat and I am not one, nor am I in "training". I do not do so because I will not knowingly put myself into positions where, in all likelihood, I will be subject to a relentless stream of scorn and ridicule. > -Is cpr/first aid equipment / O2 required to be on the boat when > diving in remote areas? Not that I'm aware of. How would having that onboard helped in the situation you describe? > -Do PADI DM's have to obide by the search for one minute and surface > rule when they lose a diver? How can they "lose" someone they do not "have"? -- SJM > Personaly i don't think it was a suicide... i wouldn't think someone > trying to commit suicide would surface first. but i don't know. I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > could have happened but it doesn't change the fact that the > uncertified DM never looked for the guy or surfaced... What do you mean the DM never surfaced? >as well as > forgetting any and all emergency equpiment other than the radio.. Why is that the DM's job to bring that stuff? Isn't it just supposed to be on the boat and the op check it regularly? >and > basicly acting as if he didn't care when i told him we needed to find > the missing diver. OK, how is this? He didn't care? He said, Ondelay(sp?), Ondelay, let's go, my dinner is waiting, it is the guys own fault if he is left behind? Or was he in shock? Did he participate in the search in any fashion? > I guess all i really need to know is what is > required of PADI DM's/dive boats > > -Can a divemaster in training work as a divemaster without any > supervision? He can if he's just a dive guide. > -Is cpr/first aid equipment / O2 required to be on the boat when > diving in remote areas? I require it, that's good enough for me. So if I can match up with a boat going out that has a good kit on board, well then. > -Do PADI DM's have to obide by the search for one minute and surface > rule when they lose a diver? A whole minute huh . . .follow your training for a whole minute? What am I missing here? Gavin help me out. > OK, how is this? He didn't care? He said, Ondelay(sp?), Ondelay, let's go, Andale. > > OK, how is this? He didn't care? He said, Ondelay(sp?), Ondelay, let's > go, > > Andale. Thanks. No wonder I couldn't find it. OH MY GOD YES! Report them pronto. > During one of my recent dives in Costa Rica a guy in our group died... > shortly after our halfway point our divemaster notices a diver had [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > that was before i found out the divemaster wasn't certified and that > no emergency equipment was packed... >one guy in our group a PADI instructor watched the guy >swim off without telling him we were turning around.. He said it >wasn't his responsibility.. <snip> >So we surface and i find out the guy is gone.. in >disbeliefe that we were never even asked to do a search.. we were more >than capable the group consisted of one rescue diver being me 2 dive >masters and a instructor all PADI. We finally make it aboard the boat Hell, I'm amazed the rest of you made it aboard the boat. Trying to conduct a search would have been pushing your luck. > >one guy in our group a PADI instructor watched the guy > >swim off without telling him we were turning around.. He said it [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Hell, I'm amazed the rest of you made it aboard the boat. Trying to conduct > a search would have been pushing your luck. You know, I thought about that, but resisted temptation. Glad you didn't. Lee > >one guy in our group a PADI instructor watched the guy > >swim off without telling him we were turning around.. He said it [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Hell, I'm amazed the rest of you made it aboard the boat. Trying to conduct > a search would have been pushing your luck. Has a point one victim is bad enough. Especially if you had found him on the surface later and he's ok.. They probably loose people all the time, this one just happened to drown. Welcome to diving in a country that doesn't put as much value on life as you do. Did they at lese hand out free cokes with rusty caps in ice water laced with hepa "A". There use to be a club around here (Ontario) had the same rule. That no one goes in after a missing diver. I didn't agree with it but seen their point. It would be interesting to see if they hold the instructor on holidays accountable. They say they are, but I have never heard of an instructor being held accountable in a case like this. I think Spock said it best "needs of one does not out way the needs of the many" The DM got back as many as he could. Your friend by going out a head, leaving the group, should have been constantly looking back. He paid for his eagerness, he was a certified diver he knew the rules and broke them. And it bit him in the a.s. Note: not all dives come with in water guides and in water DM's. If you need the services of these people, you might want to rethink your diving. sorry for your loss. Toto > During one of my recent dives in Costa Rica a guy in our group died... > shortly after our halfway point our divemaster notices a diver had [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > surface after one minute of looking (which from my understanding is > standard procedure) nor did he let any of us know the guy was missing. It wasn't his responsibility unless he was teaching the missing student at the time. and it's not standard procedure. What counts is what was said during the dive briefing. What was the guy's buddy doing at the time or was the buddy system even in use? > This is all kinda strange seeing that we are diving in a remote > location (Bat islands-islas murcialagos) with big bull sharks, swells, > waves, current and the mainland is about 1-2 miles away. In my opinion > kinda dangerous. Just goes to show that you don't have a good idea of what most of us would call dangerous except, perhaps, for the bull sharks. What do you figure the instructor or DM should have done about the Bull Sharks? > So we surface and i find out the guy is gone.. in disbeliefe that we were never even asked to do a search.. we were more > than capable the group consisted of one rescue diver being me 2 dive masters and a instructor all PADI. We finally make it aboard the boat > where our divemaster isn't t concearned about the missing diver... i don't know if this is due to complacency or what. My bullshit meter is beginning to rise. I've never heard of any instructor, dm or even diver that isn't concerned when the post dive count does not come out right. > As soon as the captain puts the boat in drive we lose power to the prop and we are > dead in the water... I asked for binoculars so i could get a visual on > the missing diver.. the divemaaster tells me it is the guys fault for > getting lost and ignores my comment about the binoculars... come to > find out he didn't even pack binoculars cpr/first aid kit.. no > emergency air and he wasn't even a certified divemaster which we were > told he was.. Thats what we paid for! Did it say that in the contract you signed? > So about 15-20 minutes goes by before a call to other boats is put in to look for our missing > diver... We ended up finding his bcd/tank and fins... did a couple > searches and turned up nothing.... after that we spent a couple hours [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > dangerous to check the previous day with his mask around his neck and > donning his weightbelt.... He wasn't donning his weight belt, he was dead. > THE REASON I AM WRITING THIS IS TO FIND OUT WETHER OR NOT ANY OF YOU THINK I SHOULD REPORT IT TO PADI the > divemaster was a divemaster in training with no certification . . . . Then he wasn't a divemaster, was he? > . . . and his instructor wasn't aboard the boat So? > I did submit an incident report but that was before i found out the divemaster wasn't certified and that > no emergency equipment was packed... 1. PADI has little or no control over the equipment on the boat. 2. You've not once indicated that anybody actually associated with the dive operation was associated with PADI and certainly not that they were acting as a PADI DM. Having said that, it's your report, what do you think you should do . . . then do it. Lee > THE REASON I AM WRITING THIS IS TO FIND > OUT WETHER OR NOT ANY OF YOU THINK I SHOULD REPORT IT TO PADI Oh, absolutely! Why, you should have reported it by now! Signature"C'mon, you sons of bitches, you want to live forever?" -Sergeant Major Dan Daly > ? THE REASON I AM WRITING THIS IS TO FIND > ? OUT WETHER OR NOT ANY OF YOU THINK I SHOULD REPORT IT TO PADI [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > "C'mon, you sons of bitches, you want to live forever?" > -Sergeant Major Dan Daly Does he Think Rec.Scuba is PADI? rhys >> THE REASON I AM WRITING THIS IS TO FIND >> OUT WETHER OR NOT ANY OF YOU THINK I SHOULD REPORT IT TO PADI > >Oh, absolutely! > >Why, you should have reported it by now! Are you going to report him for not having reported it already? bullshark > >? THE REASON I AM WRITING THIS IS TO FIND > >? OUT WETHER OR NOT ANY OF YOU THINK I SHOULD REPORT IT TO PADI [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Are you going to report him for not having reported it already? Well, the non-reporting could be considered more serious than the report in the first place, had it been reported. Dave. In article <dF9qb.206279$0v4.16282244@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Limey Dave <davidflies@worldnonet.crapatt.net> wrote: > Well, the non-reporting could be considered more serious than the report in > the first place, had it been reported. You're assuming someone would report the fact that the report about the report wasn't reported, and that the reporting authority doesn't... Wait a minute... You're assuming someone would report the fact that the report wasn't reported, and you're also assuming such a report is reportable. PADI might not be interested in such a matter. Reportedly... Signature"I know we're going to die. There's three of us who are going to do something about it." -Tom Burnett, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > In article > <dF9qb.206279$0v4.16282244@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Limey > Dave <davidflies@worldnonet.crapatt.net> wrote: > > ? Well, the non-reporting could be considered more serious than the report in > ? the first place, had it been reported. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Reportedly... Actually, there were no assumptions, since I didn't read the report in the first place. I simply made the note on the non-reporting to keep the report/ non-reporting issue going. Now I've actually read *some* of the report, I feel the original reporter is somewhat incapable of making a competent report and thus the reporting/ non-reporting of this issue by said individual is somewhat moot. I do, however feel that something should be reported here, veen if it just the poor reporting to the group of the original incident, which it seems was not officially reported. An' that's awl aye got ta say abaat that! Dave. It's not bullshit, the divemaster actualy didn't care that we had lost a diver... no sense of emergency nothing... just an o well.... And what i as a divemaster would have done about the schools of big sharks is get the missing diver out of the water not walk around saying it's not my problem.. thats messeed up... And i do realize we weren't in the middle of the pacific doing 500 foot trimix dives... but we were in a really remote area and the conditions weren't exactly pool like... to any diver acustomed to the caribbean it would have been a big change. Anyhow thanks for the input > It's not bullshit, the divemaster actualy didn't care that we had lost > a diver... no sense of emergency nothing... just an o well.... He wasn't a divemaster, remember? Just because you didn't see it, does not mean nobody was concerned. Then again, maybe they wern't at that point. A stray diver isn't exactly big news in dive resorts. > And what i as a divemaster would have done about the schools of big sharks > is get the missing diver out of the water not walk around saying it's > not my problem.. thats messeed up... It's a bit hard to get a diver who is not where he's supposed to be, out of the water. BTW, there are those who would get in the water to see sharks. > And i do realize we weren't in the middle of the pacific doing 500 foot trimix dives... but we were > in a really remote area and the conditions weren't exactly pool like... to any diver acustomed to the caribbean it would have been a > big change. If the conditions were all that severe, then somebody should have spoken up before the dive, not after somebody died. Lee > It's not bullshit, the divemaster actualy didn't care that we had lost > a diver... no sense of emergency nothing... just an o well.... Yup, that's a DM. And this is your career aim? Personally, I think I'd rather be a prison guard. "Mommie, I want to be a PADI DM when I grow up..." "Mommie, I want be a prison guard when I grow up, and execute bad people..." Not a hell of a lot of difference. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > It's not bullshit, the divemaster actualy didn't care that we had lost > a diver... no sense of emergency nothing... just an o well.... Is there a cultural difference and a language barrier? And > what i as a divemaster would have done about the schools of big sharks > is get the missing diver out of the water not walk around saying it's > not my problem.. He was walking around saying that's not my problem to what? That he couldn't get the sharks out of the water? Or that he couldl get the diver out of the water? thats messeed up... And i do realize we weren't in > the middle of the pacific doing 500 foot trimix dives... but we were > in a really remote area and the conditions weren't exactly pool > like... to any diver acustomed to the caribbean it would have been a > big change. Anyhow thanks for the input The input wont quit as long as you don't quit again. We can piece this together, so are you going to crap out on us now? We were diving as a group instead of the normal buddy system. And no i don't need a DM when i am diving but alot of people do. Also i don't know if the papers i signed mentioned anything about cpr/first aid.... but i had made 40 other dives with these people and there was cpr/first aid and O2 on the boat every time.. > We were diving as a group instead of the normal buddy system. And no i > don't need a DM when i am diving but alot of people do. Also i don't > know if the papers i signed mentioned anything about cpr/first aid.... > but i had made 40 other dives with these people and there was > cpr/first aid and O2 on the boat every time.. Remember when I was talking about bullshit meters? Mines climbing again. You checked for cpr/first aid and O2 40 times, but you failed to notice it wasn't there before you left the dock this time? Since you didn't get the point, I'll lay it out for you. The point was, you've made a lot of unsupported assumptions about what is standard procedures, standard equipment and standard response to a situation without knowing what it really was. The person leading the group, by your own words, was not a dive master and might not even know who PADI is, let alone what their standards are. The standards you are talking about are what you were taught, are what you, as a PADI DM are supposed to observe, and are what you, in your other diving, have grown to assume (or actually know) are basic equipment for a dive boat. Lee > And no i don't need a DM when i am diving but alot of people do. Perhaps, but they're dying off, and we're better off for it. Learn to quote, or shut the f.ck up. On second thought, forget the quotes. Signature"C'mon, you sons of bitches, you want to live forever?" -Sergeant Major Dan Daly > We were diving as a group instead of the normal buddy system. And no i > don't need a DM when i am diving but alot of people do. Also i don't > know if the papers i signed mentioned anything about cpr/first aid.... > but i had made 40 other dives with these people and there was > cpr/first aid and O2 on the boat every time.. These people being the other paid divers in your group? These dives with these people meaning the boat operation? These dives with this DM? These dive with this DM and this boat was new? >During one of my recent dives in Costa Rica a guy in our group died... >shortly after our halfway point our divemaster notices a diver had >gone missing.. I dive a lot in Costa Rica and am very interested in knowing who the dive operator/resort was. I think that you would do the dive community a service by posting that information. As i said before about reporting it. I filled out and turned in to PADI an incident report. Had i not turned in one it would have been ok because i am not yet a DM.. only DM's and higher are required to turn in incident reports, fyi. I didn't put in my report that the divemaster was uncertified and that there wasn't any O2/ emergency equipment because i didn't know at the time.. I didn't put in my report that the > divemaster was uncertified........... Isn't that redundant? Dave. > only DM's and higher are required to turn > in incident reports, fyi Coffee, boy. Black, hot, and now. Signature"C'mon, you sons of bitches, you want to live forever?" -Sergeant Major Dan Daly > As i said before about reporting it. I filled out and turned in to > PADI an incident report. Had i not turned in one it would have been ok > because i am not yet a DM.. only DM's and higher are required to turn > in incident reports, fyi. I didn't put in my report that the > divemaster was uncertified and that there wasn't any O2/ emergency > equipment because i didn't know at the time.. Now that's a shame. Now PADI should be expected to investigate allegations of inappropriate action against somebody they believe is a DM, who is not. Guess who filed a false statement. You know, it's really none of my business. I'm not a PADI diver and, while I seem to have become a member of the PADI Society somehow, I havn't put in the first dollar, let alone, another one. Still, I would think it might be good to have complete, or at least near complete information before filing such a report. I think your original decision to file was a mistake, but that's just my opinion. On the other hand, knowing that you omitted key data from the original report, I suggest you refile in order to correct the omissions. Lee > As i said before about reporting it. I filled out and turned in to > PADI an incident report. Had i not turned in one it would have been ok > because i am not yet a DM.. only DM's and higher are required to turn > in incident reports, fyi. I didn't put in my report that the > divemaster was uncertified and that there wasn't any O2/ emergency > equipment because i didn't know at the time.. Did anyone else in your group, instuctors, DM and rescue divers, report the incident? > As i said before about reporting it. I filled out and turned in to > PADI an incident report. Had i not turned in one it would have been ok > because i am not yet a DM.. only DM's and higher are required to turn > in incident reports, fyi. I didn't put in my report that the > divemaster was uncertified and that there wasn't any O2/ emergency > equipment because i didn't know at the time.. So maybe I misunderstood you. You want to add details to your report that you were not aware of at the time of filing, yes? How did you come by this new info? > I dive a lot in Costa Rica and am very interested in knowing who the > dive operator/resort was. I think that you would do the dive > community a service by posting that information. They're the ones with the dead divers. Signature"Let's roll!" -Todd Beamer, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > During one of my recent dives in Costa Rica a guy in our group died... I'm sorry to hear that. > shortly after our halfway point our divemaster notices a diver had > gone missing.. one guy in our group a PADI instructor watched the guy > swim off without telling him we were turning around.. He said it > wasn't his responsibility.. He's right, it's not his responsibility. Why would it be? > So anyway the divemaster decided not to surface after one minute of > looking (which from my understanding is standard procedure) Your understanding is misunderstood. > nor did he let any of us know the guy was missing.. Your last two statements are conflicting. Nevertheless, why didn't you notice the guy went missing? > This is all kinda strange seeing that we are diving in a remote > location (Bat islands-islas murcialagos) with big bull sharks, swells, > waves, current and the mainland is about 1-2 miles away. Remote? That's hardly remote friend. > In my opinion kinda dangerous. How dangerous exactly is "kinda" dangerous? How does one conduct a "kinda dangerous" dive any differently than say a not so dangerous dive or even a really dangerous dive? > So we surface and i find out the guy is gone.. in > disbeliefe that we were never even asked to do a search.. Again, the latter statement is conflicting. Further, you yourself appeared clueless to the fact that a fellow diver you were diving with went missing. You all would have probably gone missing yourselves. Good call on not recruiting you folks to do a search. The body count would have most likely gone up. > we were more than capable the group consisted of one rescue diver being > me 2 dive masters and a instructor all PADI. Hehehe! You've got to be kidding right? You're a rescue diver who refers to oxygen as "emergency air". That alone says spades. What pray tell does being a PADI divemaster or a PADI instructor have to do with being capable of conducting a search? You're obviously clueless as to what DM and instructor training is all about. > We finally make it aboard the boat > where our divemaster isn't t concearned about the missing diver... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the missing diver.. the divemaaster tells me it is the guys fault for > getting lost and ignores my comment about the binoculars... Well of course its the diver's own fault for getting lost. Who's fault do you think it is? > come to find out he didn't even pack binoculars cpr/first aid kit.. no > emergency air and he wasn't even a certified divemaster which we were > told he was.. Thats what we paid for! Get real, you did not pay for a divemaster, you paid to go SCUBA diving. You got what you paid for and then some. Further, a DM does not equate to baby-sitter, nor would having a DM negate each diver being responsible for themselves. You obviously think otherwise, and you are very, very wrong. Perhaps you should stay out of the water until you're competent enough to do it without a DM around to change your tampon and such? > So about 15-20 minutes goes by before a call to other boats is put in to > look for our missing diver... We ended up finding his bcd/tank and > fins... Kewl! Did you get first dibs on the gear? > did a couple searches and turned up nothing.... after that we spent a > couple hours driving around in the ocean looking for him and nothing... [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > donning his weightbelt.... THE REASON I AM WRITING THIS IS TO FIND > OUT WETHER OR NOT ANY OF YOU THINK I SHOULD REPORT IT TO PADI What for? > the divemaster was a divemaster in training with no certification and his > instructor wasn't aboard the boat. So what? You appear to be under a great deal of false premises friend. I'd suggest you're in dire need of an awakening. > I did submit an incident report but that was before i found out the > divemaster wasn't certified and that no emergency equipment was packed... So what? Honestly dude, what's the big deal here? -- Randy F. Milak ~You swallowed a bottle of sleeping pills? Don't worry, have a few drinks and get some rest!~ > Honestly dude, what's the big deal here? I think he wants to work in a "leadership role" on a diveboat, and PADI told him he could. They just didn't tell him what's going to happen when he runs into us at sea. Signature"Let's roll!" -Todd Beamer, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > ? Honestly dude, what's the big deal here? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > They just didn't tell him what's going to happen when he runs into us > at sea. Nothing will happen, absolutely nothing. He'll issue instructions and nothing will happen. He'll jump in the water expecting everybody to abide by his rules and nothing will happen. He'll lead the dive expecting everybody is following and nothing will happen. It'll drive him completely nuts . . . and nothing will happen. Lee The uncertified DM was a PADI diver..... The boat we used this time was a different boat than we normaly used. I know the O2 and cpr were on the other boat because we always pulled them out for rescue classes and they never left the boat. The rule when being seperated from your buddy underwater in this case from the group being the divers buddy is search for one minute and surface... thats what PADI divers are taught... I have read the DM manual... My statements may be a little boggled because i am trying to answer all the questions in one posting... And it is a little difficult to put every aspect of a totaly f.cked up 10 hour day in one posting.. so if i left something out just ask instead of going off about bullshit"O"meters. What qualifies us all to do a search is that we were all certified rescue divers other than the missing diver which was advanced open water... I know you might be some kind of Superdiver with who knows what kind of certifications but you don't need to dog PADI or any other association.. The reason i didn't see the guy take off is i was in th rear of the group making sure nobody fell behind.. The diver that went missing was somewhere in the front.. Sorry for calling O2 air it was a mistake. By dangerous i just ment a place were you should be cautious Not remote? thats really funny, all of Costa Rica is remote. If they had cars, boats, helicopters, cities and medical facilities like the united states i would say it was only kind of remote but once again it is Costa Rica And the sharks, I am sure you are one of thoes people that pets 10 foot bullsharks and scoffs at the idea of them being dangerous. But they are sharks and they are nothing to play around with. Pretty much all i am trying to say is the not DM should have wanted to get that guy out of the water thats all.. The search i was talking about, when the guy went missing underwater would be a one minute search... not a full blown rescue effort. We are all very compitant divers and mind you i was on this trip as a recreational diver not an assistant DM.. i figure i was doing more than my part by staying in the back and making sure nobody fell "behind" (that doesn't mean ahead)... i didn't realize you people would expect me to have acted as a supervisor. The question about rec.scuba being PADI, i don't know what you are talking about. I am guessing rec.scuba is recreational scuba diving. It doesn't seem much like that a couple of you act like you invented the sport.. You would probably argue with me for calling it a sport.. fun Kinda funny that i thought i might learn something from you people... all i am getting is criticism. i never said the diver didn't make bad decisions.. and i never said the Guide was responsible or the dive shop... but there sure were alot of f.ck ups leading up to this guys death Sorry if i offended any of you.. it wasn't my intention Gavin > The uncertified DM was a PADI diver..... <snip> What I still want to know was, if this is how the situation went: > So we surface and i find out the guy is gone.. in > disbeliefe that we were never even asked to do a search.. we were more > than capable the group consisted of one rescue diver being me 2 dive > masters and a instructor all PADI. Why the f.ck didn't you start a search? Were you waiting for some sort of request to start searching, or didn't you know where to start? Why do you not see yourself as respnsible? Why is all the blame directed at others? Why didn't you report yourself to PADI? Cheers David M > The uncertified DM was a PADI diver..... > [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > Gavin Relax this rec.scuba. Did the local police take a report? If so that and reporting it to the agency they said they where is about all you can do. These things happen on cattle dives. I know one guy who has been left twice, once for 6 hours. I suggested he buy an erip he thought I was crazy, so then I suggested a sea sausage, he still thought I was crazy. He headed off to the same place next month. So who's crazy? What can you do? Bastard would let me put any insurance on him. I hope I'm in the will he loaded. You did what you could, so move on. Just when your diving in those countries never take your eyes off the guide. Follow that little guy, because you know he's going home. Toto > I know one guy who has been left twice, once for 6 hours. > I suggested he buy an erip he thought I was crazy, so then I suggested a sea > sausage, he still thought I was crazy. Was it your boat? Cheers David M > > I know one guy who has been left twice, once for 6 hours. > > I suggested he buy an erip he thought I was crazy, so then I suggested a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Cheers > David M Nope, you f.ck up on my boat (chartering days). I drop your a.s off at a private chamber making you a side show through town. I have yet not see one cry like a little baby on the way to the chamber. So if me reaming you a new a.shole didn't work, the f.cking bill from the chamber will. Besides you f.cked up and it's not going on my insurance, and your blood will not be on my hands, in the chamber you go. And if you think I would wait to your late your wrong. Ask around I would do a sweep dive and if I have to drag you back up it's going to hurt. Plus your off the boat permanently. I was constantly fully booked to a point if you were not a member of the store's club and had done the dives before. I didn't need your money (key point). You have to get your experience else where unless you where trained by us and where ready. In the time frame I ran Toby there was over 16? deaths or so on the Arabia. (28? to date) None of them where ours. Divers who f.ck up regularly have no idea how much grief they cause the charter operator and other divers. I couldn't tell you how many times I had to cancel the second dive and rush in (burning sh.t loads of fuel ) Plus my and others time. Then there's the o2 they use, clearing the harbour launch, having them open the chamber + attendant + operator + doctor, fire department, OPP, parks people, CG. Shutting down the small town so that the emergency people can do their thing. So all the divers and tourist know your on your way in, quite the show to be dragged in in front of a few hundred people. Then there's the hundred or so divers camping at the same camp ground, boy you impressed them. Paper work. Refunds for the second dive. Just because some f.ck nut couldn't follow a dive briefing. Wreck diving in Toby is pretty easy. Follow the line down and back. Follow the briefing and do as you where trained. Follow the rules. Follow the other divers and your buddy. Stay on the wreck so if there's a problem I will be by and I carry sh.t loads of air (can supply up to four OOA divers) There's drop tanks at the bottom of the line, 2 seconds on each. I would dive with the last group (lease experienced). I don't wait for OOA on deep sport dives 1500 psi is where I draw the line. I would get you back to the up line from there you go on your gas. Any hesitation, you stay with me on my gas till I pass you off to the boat. Because I dove a lot back then you could be assured, if this happened in the afternoon. Your in for a long deco (20 min) with me smiling while you freeze your a.s off. I not about to let an incompetent diver out of my sight or blow my deco off. High percentage of accidents happen on the surface. You where baggage and handle as such the second you hesitated. Tech divers get an extra 3 seconds to get their sh.t together. Then on top of that the operator looks like an a.s to the customers. Operators think nothing of it because next weekend they hope it's not their turn. After a while you can smell these f.ck nuts coming. I can spot them as they unload their cars at the dock. sorry I lost it there... sore point... it's not my fault it's his fault... errr Plan you dive and dive your plan. If you don't understand ask. If the dive is not for you don't dive, go get more training / experience. No embarrassment in that. You screw up and that's embarrassment. Toto > Then on top of that the operator looks like an a.s to the customers. OH, yeah... Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > > > I know one guy who has been left twice, once for 6 hours. > > > I suggested he buy an erip he thought I was crazy, > > > > Cheers > > David M > And if you think I would wait to your late your wrong. > I was constantly fully booked to a point if you were not a member of the > store's club and had done the dives before. > You have to get your experience else where unless you where trained by us > and where ready. > Plus my and others time. > Then there's the o2 they use, clearing the harbour launch, having them open > the chamber > Because I dove a lot back then you could be assured, if this happened in the > afternoon. > I not about to let an incompetent diver out of my sight or blow my deco off. > You where baggage and handle as such the second you hesitated. what is your native language? its hard to tell here. are you a victim of bilingualism? > Toto > If you don't understand ask. I don't understand. Could you summarise it please? Cheers David M > > If you don't understand ask. > > I don't understand. Could you summarise it please? Popcorn, boy. Hot, buttered, and now. Signature"Let's roll!" -Todd Beamer, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > Popcorn, boy. > > Hot, buttered, and now. See that Steve? English makes it easy. Cheers David M > Popcorn, boy. > > Hot, buttered, and now. *pours and rams a charge of powder followed by unpopped popcorn kernals and butter down the barrel of a muzzle-loading 4 gauge black powder shotgun, figures they'll probably be popped by the time they reach Jammie* Open Wide... ;) rhys > What qualifies us all to do a search is that we were all certified > rescue divers other than the missing diver which was advanced open > water... tion.. Yes, we know. We asked you what qualified you to do a search. We knew you were PADI when we asked. Doesn't that tell you anthing? No. We thought not. > I know you might be some kind of Superdiver with who knows > what kind of certifications but you don't need to dog PADI or any > other associa Yes, we do. You're here. You still think your PADI training and rescue "qualifications" are valuable, so our job isn't done. > We are > all very compitant divers and mind you i was on this trip as a > recreational diver not an assistant DM.. Not even close. There is hard evidence that at least one of you, the missing diver's buddy, is a complete stroke. There is further evidence, in the form of your blathering, that at least one other diver, you, depended on a PADI DM to keep them safe, which means the rest of the boat was full of strokes, too. > i figure i was doing more > than my part by staying in the back and making sure nobody fell > "behind" (that doesn't mean ahead)... i didn't realize you people > would expect me to have acted as a supervisor. Rest easy. Believe me, no one here expects anything from you. We base our expectations on performance, and you've demonstrated quite clearly what your limits are. > Kinda funny that i thought i might learn something from you people... > all i am getting is criticism It's also funny that you can't learn from criticism, but what's even funnier is the idea that we owe you anything. Learning 101. Look it up. Learn how to learn. Or die. No one here gives a small puddle of day old poodle sh.t which you choose, because no one here cares if you live or die. Just leave us your Old Lady's phone number, if she's pretty. There's only one way to comfort a new widow. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > <snip>... > It's also funny that you can't learn from criticism, but what's even [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > There's only one way to comfort a new widow. You sir, are a saint. But be careful. And if you can't be careful, don't name it after me. =;-) -- Randy F. Milak ~Latest research indicates that birth control misconceptions lead to pregnancy!~ > You sir, are a saint. But be careful. And if you can't be careful, > don't name it after me. =;-) Noted. But We're not a damned saint. Not only are saints catholic, but they're not even minor gods. We, on the other hand, just called Our First Priest home, and are standing by to smite any of you silly motherf..kers who don't get the message. Signature"I know we're going to die. There's three of us who are going to do something about it." -Tom Burnett, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > ? You sir, are a saint. But be careful. And if you can't be careful, > ? don't name it after me. =;-) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > standing by to smite any of you silly motherf..kers who don't get the > message. With a turtle through the noggin? rhys > The uncertified DM was a PADI diver..... > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > from the group being the divers buddy is search for one minute and > surface... thats what PADI divers are taught... No they are not. A "group" is not, nor has it ever been a buddy. Try again. > I have read the DM manual... My statements may be a little boggled > because i am trying to answer all the questions in one posting... And > it is a little difficult to put every aspect of a totaly f.cked up 10 > hour day in one posting.. so if i left something out just ask instead > of going off about bullshit"O"meters. Fair enough. However, I'd suggest a need to quote properly or nothing will ever get clarity. > What qualifies us all to do a search is that we were all certified > rescue divers other than the missing diver which was advanced open > water... I know you might be some kind of Superdiver with who knows > what kind of certifications but you don't need to dog PADI or any > other association. It has nothing to do with "Superdiver" ego, nor does it have to do with dogging any agency. It has everything to do with someone confusing a certification, specifically their own certification with a qualification and then not understanding the relevance. > The reason i didn't see the guy take off is i was in th rear of the > group making sure nobody fell behind.. The diver that went missing was > somewhere in the front.. Ironic. > Sorry for calling O2 air it was a mistake. Check. > By dangerous i just ment a place were you should be cautious Check. > Not remote? thats really funny, all of Costa Rica is remote. If they > had cars, boats, helicopters, cities and medical facilities like the > united states i would say it was only kind of remote but once again it > is Costa Rica There's a big world out there. Remote as in far removed in space, time, or relation has little to do with cars, boats, helicopters, cities and medical facilities as you suggest, and are the least of ones problem when speaking of diving something 'remote'. In the annals of diving, what you where doing would be considered extremely low risk recreational diving. There are places, very lonely places on this planet one could dive next to a one million population with first class EMS, world class medical facilities, cars, boats and helicopters. None of which could prove to be of any use whatsoever to the diver whom is truly 'remote'. "Remote" needs perspective. > And the sharks, I am sure you are one of thoes people that pets 10 > foot bullsharks and scoffs at the idea of them being dangerous. But > they are sharks and they are nothing to play around with. Pretty much > all i am trying to say is the not DM should have wanted to get that > guy out of the water thats all.. Nicely dramatic. The problem with that statement however is that the sharks are not, nor were they ever the problem. Neither the flora nor the fauna proved problematic. I'd suggest you're being melodramatic. "Lost At Sea" was the most likely secondary problematic element. Everything from suicide to simple novice inexperience could be speculated as to the primary cause of the latter underlying enigma. Yet you are clearly trying to point a number of blaming fingers on a particular party. > The search i was talking about, when the guy went missing underwater > would be a one minute search... not a full blown rescue effort. We are [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "behind" (that doesn't mean ahead)... i didn't realize you people > would expect me to have acted as a supervisor. Did it ever occur to any of you to dive in buddy pairs per chance? > The question about rec.scuba being PADI, i don't know what you are > talking about. Who asked what question about rec.scuba being PADI? When one fails to properly quote, it's difficult if not impossible to know exactly what or to which another may be speaking to. > I am guessing rec.scuba is recreational scuba diving. > It doesn't seem much like that a couple of you act like you invented [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Kinda funny that i thought i might learn something from you people... > all i am getting is criticism. WTF? Criticism is simply an analysis, an examination, a study; commentary, observation; opinion; appraisal, assessment and so on. Can't you learn from that? Because one isn't being showered with warm and fuzzies doesn't mean they aren't taken seriously either. Do you really want to learn something or do you just want a pat on the head? > i never said the diver didn't make bad decisions.. You're right, you never once indicated such and you should have. A diver must be responsible for their own actions, since no one else can breath for them, dive for them or think for them. > and i never said the Guide was responsible or the dive shop... but > there sure were alot of f.ck ups leading up to this guys death You may have never said it, but you prominently implied their guilt without reservation. Certainly a great deal can be learned from this situation - if allowed some objectivity. > Sorry if i offended any of you.. it wasn't my intention Sorry? Hell, put a notch in yer belt if that were the case, but I somehow doubt you've offended anyone around here. -- Randy F. Milak ~Judgmental people are the worst aren't they?~ > The uncertified DM was a PADI diver..... > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > all i am trying to say is the not DM should have wanted to get that > guy out of the water thats all.. Well, with a shark, you are more likely to be safe at depth rather than floundering around at the surface. > The search i was talking about, when the guy went missing underwater > would be a one minute search... not a full blown rescue effort. We are [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "behind" (that doesn't mean ahead)... i didn't realize you people > would expect me to have acted as a supervisor. I don't. I figure you were just drawing up the rear of the group. Did you ever given anythought to going off on your own? Did you think that you having assumed a position to keep straggpers with the group that you became responsible for the guy who'd wandered off? > The question about rec.scuba being PADI, i don't know what you are > talking about. I am guessing rec.scuba is recreational scuba diving. > It doesn't seem much like that a couple of you act like you invented > the sport.. You would probably argue with me for calling it a sport.. > fun Not me, Beside you were the one that came in here sh.tting all over Padi divers, it wasn't us. > Kinda funny that i thought i might learn something from you people... > all i am getting is criticism. You can learn from us, but you need to listen with an open mind and help us work with you, so that in the end, we have a much clearer picture of what happened. > i never said the diver didn't make bad decisions.. and i never said > the Guide was responsible or the dive shop... but there sure were alot > of f.ck ups leading up to this guys death Yup. What do you think the very first f.ck up was that started this train of events. > Sorry if i offended any of you.. it wasn't my intention If you offend us you will know it, in no uncertain terms. So hang in here with us, lets see if we can't get this thing figured out together. > If you offend us you will know it, in no uncertain terms. So hang in here > with us, lets see if we can't get this thing figured out together. Oh, man... Honey, did we ever underestimate you... Signature"I know we're going to die. There's three of us who are going to do something about it." -Tom Burnett, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > The uncertified DM was a PADI diver..... > > The boat we used this time was a different boat than we normaly used. > I know the O2 and cpr were on the other boat because we always pulled > them out for rescue classes and they never left the boat. And you know they've never left the boat because......? > The rule when being seperated from your buddy underwater in this case > from the group being the divers buddy is search for one minute and > surface... thats what PADI divers are taught... Didn't they also tell you to keep track of your buddy? Who was his buddy? Oh thats right, it was a group thing, so no real buddy teams, from what y'said, right? All that experience too. > I have read the DM manual... My statements may be a little boggled > because i am trying to answer all the questions in one posting... And > it is a little difficult to put every aspect of a totaly f.cked up 10 > hour day in one posting.. so if i left something out just ask instead > of going off about bullshit"O"meters. This isn't a verbal conversation.. You have plenty of time to review/reword/edit what you've written before pressing 'send'. > What qualifies us all to do a search is that we were all certified > rescue divers other than the missing diver which was advanced open > water... I know you might be some kind of Superdiver with who knows > what kind of certifications but you don't need to dog PADI or any > other association.. All that experience, and y'didn't notice the missing diver until back at the surface > The reason i didn't see the guy take off is i was in th rear of the > group making sure nobody fell behind.. The diver that went missing was > somewhere in the front.. so you should've had a good view? > Sorry for calling O2 air it was a mistake. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > than my part by staying in the back and making sure nobody fell > "behind" (that doesn't mean ahead)... i didn't realize you people would expect me to have acted as a supervisor. > The question about rec.scuba being PADI, i don't know what you are > talking about. I am guessing rec.scuba is recreational scuba diving. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the Guide was responsible or the dive shop... but there sure were alot > of f.ck ups leading up to this guys death Sure y'did. You weanted the guide to track flks, and let y'all know when one comes up missing. That mean you wanted him to be responsible for everyone in the group. There were a lot of fuckups. So what will you do differently? > Sorry if i offended any of you.. it wasn't my intention No offense taken. Dennis > Gavin > The uncertified DM was a PADI diver..... Again, you seem to be missing a glaringly obvious point. Dave. > It doesn't seem much like that a couple of you act like you invented > the sport. they did Signature--Chandler -- May Hog be your boatman when you reach the River Styx On 5 Nov 2003 20:18:27 -0800, jamesgbradley@hotmail.com (Gavin) wrote ... >We are all very compitant divers ... Well, *nearly* all of you were competent divers... That aspect of the missing diver is somewhat questionable... > Well, *nearly* all of you were competent divers... That aspect of the > missing diver is somewhat questionable... And his buddy... Signature"I know we're going to die. There's three of us who are going to do something about it." -Tom Burnett, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 >The uncertified DM was a PADI diver..... > >The boat we used this time was a different boat than we normaly used. >I know the O2 and cpr were on the other boat because we always pulled >them out for rescue classes and they never left the boat. Wow. Did the CPR come in box? It should have been a Pelican case that said "DAN". It's very expensive. None of the boats around can afford it, so they make do with personnel that are trained in CPR, and they are allowed to leave the boat whenever they want. Oddly, whenever they are on the boat, so is the CPR. It's sad that your group was on a boat without CPR, and very telling. In all your accounts there has not been one single criticism of the dive op, justified or not, that would have changed the outcome. While it may be beyond your experience, it is common practice with many divers to dive as they wish, where they wish. The dive boat is a bus, nothing more, and the DM's role is to facilitate entry/exit and hump tanks, nothing more. Real DM's (good ones) know this. They also don't get all excited when someone turns up missing. It happens all the time, and the usual scan of the water turns up a diver waving his arms for pick up. If it doesn't, a frantic search by untrained civilians won't help. The missing diver is dead or out of the area. The civilians are not only untrained, they are unequipped. Their tanks are empty and their RNT is maxed. By your accounts, the DM was good at what he does. safe diving, bullshark > Wow. Did the CPR come in box? It should have been a Pelican case > that said "DAN". It's very expensive. None of the boats around > can afford it, so they make do with personnel that are trained in > CPR, and they are allowed to leave the boat whenever they want. > Oddly, whenever they are on the boat, so is the CPR. It's sad that > your group was on a boat without CPR, and very telling. smart a.s 8^) > While it may be beyond your experience, it is common practice with > many divers to dive as they wish, where they wish. The dive boat [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > of the area. The civilians are not only untrained, they are unequipped. > Their tanks are empty and their RNT is maxed. Very well said. Lee >>The uncertified DM was a PADI diver..... >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >of the area. The civilians are not only untrained, they are unequipped. >Their tanks are empty and their RNT is maxed. Exactly. Risking more people on a body recovery is stupid. If the missing diver's tank is empty, he's f.cked. Causing more people to become f.cked is extremely stupid. Now if I have RNT to spare and/or gas to spare, I will attempt a search in those circumstances. But I won't risk bending (or killing) myself to recover a body. -- SignatureKarl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net Tired of spam at your company? LOOK HERE! http://childrens-justice.org Working for family and children's rights http://diversunion.org LOG IN AND GET YOUR TANK STICKERS TODAY! > >>The uncertified DM was a PADI diver..... > >> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Risking more people on a body recovery is stupid. Much like that assertion. > If the missing diver's tank is empty, he's f.cked. No he/she is not; they're simply OOA. > Causing more people to become f.cked is extremely stupid. Incredible. > Now if I have RNT to spare and/or gas to spare, I will attempt a search > in those circumstances. But I won't risk bending (or killing) myself to > recover a body. The above clearly demonstrates why some should stick close to a DM and never consider engaging in a rescue attempt. They'd just become another problem. I trust you tip your DMs well Karl? -- Randy F. Milak ~Even a two button mouse gives him too many options!~ > The uncertified DM was a PADI diver..... Was he paid to act as DM or was he doing it as a favor or, for that matter, simply somebody that agreed to drag the buoy? > The rule when being seperated from your buddy underwater in this case > from the group being the divers buddy is search for one minute and > surface... thats what PADI divers are taught... It's not a rule, it's a recommnedation. PADI does not get to make rules for diving outside of their training courses. > I have read the DM manual... My statements may be a little boggled > because i am trying to answer all the questions in one posting... And > it is a little difficult to put every aspect of a totaly f.cked up 10 > hour day in one posting.. so if i left something out just ask instead > of going off about bullshit"O"meters. You're trying too hard. Most don't really need answers, they're posting questions to get you to think about things and in ways that you appear not to have done on your own. > What qualifies us all to do a search is that we were all certified > rescue divers other than the missing diver which was advanced open > water... I know something of search techniques and in my personal opinion, a rescue ce |
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