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Scuba Forum / General / December 2004Why 'is' online purchacing no cheaper than local retail!
I thought the advent of online purchase was to find deals. Shopping for new SCUBA stuff isn't paying off in savings. For example, I purchased a AB Biller 48" speargun for $200.00 at Scuba Quest in Orlando and every place online it was considerably more. I lost the tip last time out and a replacement 'is' anywhere from $17.00 to $24.00 online. Retail the tip is 19.95. The same is true for cigars. I pay $82 w/tax for a box (25) of Hoyo de Monterrey, double corona maduros. I've never seen them cheaper online So what ever happened to the incentive to buy online?  SignatureSC Proverbs 29:2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn. Yee'haaaaaaaaaaa >I thought the advent of online purchase was to find deals. You'll find some, but in general the cost of online purchases is about the same as local purchase -- especially after adding shipping, although shipping coset may be at least partly off-set if you don't pay sales tax. Some dealers, on-line or not, offer better prices than others. If live near such dealers, local purchases may be your best deal. If you don't live near them, you may find better prices on-line. >So what ever happened to the incentive to buy online? Prices aren't the only incentive to me. Most commonly I make on-line purchase because they have what I want and local dearlers do not. I also appreciate the time I save by not having to run around to various local shops. SignatureCharlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying) All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. Nice handle. >I thought the advent of online purchase was to find deals. You're not the first to make such a mistake. The advent of online purchase was, and is, to make money. > Shopping for new SCUBA stuff isn't paying off in savings. Then you're not a very good shopper. > For example, I purchased a AB Biller 48" speargun for $200.00 at Scuba > Quest in Orlando and every place online it was considerably more. I lost > the tip last time out and a replacement 'is' anywhere from $17.00 to > $24.00 online. Retail the tip is 19.95. I take it bank, you're really not a good shopper. > So what ever happened to the incentive to buy online? You save gas? Lee "Spear Chucky" <comquat777@@yahoo.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :So what ever happened to the incentive to buy online? The incentive is to get things not available locally. Like you, I find prices are generally lower at my local merchant. Dan Bracuk Is it my imagination, or do Buffalo Wings taste like chicken? The Best of rec.scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/ >"Spear Chucky" <comquat777@@yahoo.com> pounded away at his keyboard >resulting in: >:So what ever happened to the incentive to buy online? > >The incentive is to get things not available locally. Like you, I >find prices are generally lower at my local merchant. And, when you buy regularly from a local, you sometimes get friendly consideration. My dive shop (Oak Hill Scuba) gives me free fills on occasion. And I get some pretty good discounts. >Dan Bracuk >Is it my imagination, or do Buffalo Wings taste like chicken? >The Best of rec.scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/ > >---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- Signaturedillon "When the French are against it, you know we can't be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman >I thought the advent of online purchase was to find deals. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >So what ever happened to the incentive to buy online? Depends on the brand/make/whatever. Some brands are "price fixed" via collusion between the retailers and manufactuers (supposed to be illegal, but there are loopholes in the law). These items are often radically cheaper online as they're sold online by sellers who don't give a damn about these "agrements" and have figured out how to circumvent them (usually by not being an authorized dealer) The net is not magic. It does, however, make distortions such as improper price fixing damn difficult to sustain - which is why so many LDSs HATE the Internet. -- SignatureKarl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do! http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind >>I thought the advent of online purchase was to find deals. >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > -- Internet shop= no overheads and no stock,just a distributor sending you whatever from main supplier. For my kit i prefer to support my local shop(service/advice/coffee)-and it gives me a "face" to talk to should the item not be as expected-however now most shops have a web shop,more advertising than deals tho. just my 0.2 "Timberwolf" <howling@themoon.invalid> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :Internet shop= no overheads and no stock,just a distributor sending you :whatever from main supplier. Someone somewhere has to have stock, or quick delivery will be impossible. No matter who carries the stock, the cost of doing so will be passed along to the end customer in some way, shape, or form. Dan Bracuk Is it my imagination, or do Buffalo Wings taste like chicken? The Best of rec.scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/ >:Internet shop= no overheads and no stock,just a distributor sending you >:whatever from main supplier. > >Someone somewhere has to have stock, or quick delivery will be >impossible. No matter who carries the stock, the cost of doing so >will be passed along to the end customer in some way, shape, or form. But overall the inventory spends less time sitting in fewer places, which reduces the net cost of selling it. Problem in this thread - spearguns are a pretty small niche item, even for dive shops. Hence no great deals. SignatureJason O'Rourke www.jor.com >>:Internet shop= no overheads and no stock,just a distributor sending you >>:whatever from main supplier. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Problem in this thread - spearguns are a pretty small niche item, even for >dive shops. Hence no great deals. Not really..... depends on the brand... There are some good deals out there online on spearguns... -- SignatureKarl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do! http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind >>>:Internet shop= no overheads and no stock,just a distributor sending you >>>:whatever from main supplier. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > There are some good deals out there online on spearguns... I challenge anyone to beat $200 for an AB Biller 48", that's what I paid retail at the local dive shop. > -- > I challenge anyone to beat $200 for an AB Biller 48", that's what I paid > retail at the local dive shop. Which model? Mahogany, teak, padauk, or stainless? With or without reel? $195.95 -- <http://www.blueh20.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/spearguns_biller.html> $169.95 -- (stainless) <http://www.leisurepro.com/Catalog.aspx?op=ItemDisplay&ProductID=ABBS> On http://www.discountdivegear.com/mall/spearfishing.asp, they seem to have pretty good prices on a lot of different models: $160.95 -- mahogany $142.95 -- stainless $167.95 -- mohogany Floridian $176.95 -- padauk $203.95 -- teak Didn't take much of a web search to come up with a cheaper price... So, what do I win now that I've met your challenge? <grin >> I challenge anyone to beat $200 for an AB Biller 48", that's what I paid >> retail at the local dive shop. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > what > do I win now that I've met your challenge? <grin> Cool thanks. A free ride out of Ponce Inlet? I try to find deals online, believe me. After a few search results though, I often five up and head over to the shop. >>> I challenge anyone to beat $200 for an AB Biller 48", that's what I paid >>> retail at the local dive shop. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Cool thanks. I suspect I have THE A.BE. BILKER FLORIDIAN, although there's no model name on mine and no difference I can see comparing the pictures. What are the differences in models? > A free ride out of Ponce Inlet? > > I try to find deals online, believe me. After a few search results though, > I often five up and head over to the shop. > I suspect I have THE A.BE. BILKER FLORIDIAN, although there's no model name > on mine and no difference I can see comparing the pictures. What are the > differences in models? Hell if I know... You're the spearfisherman, right? <grin> I just did a quick web search to see what you were talking about and what the going prices where for whatever it was... I just gave you the raw data... It's up to you to determine if it is significant... For me, I just go to the local grocery store and purchase a piece of dead bovine flesh... > > I suspect I have THE A.BE. BILKER FLORIDIAN, although there's no model > name [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > to you to determine if it is significant... For me, I just go to the local > grocery store and purchase a piece of dead bovine flesh... Typical Texan. Everyone knows you're supposed to purchase porcine flesh for proper Southern barbecue. ;-) > Everyone knows you're supposed to purchase porcine flesh for proper > Southern barbecue. Damn, you sound like all those Floridians... For the two weeks that I was there, I don't think I found a single place that had BBQed bovine flesh, much less the BBQed bovine neck flesh... Lee warned me that it would be best if I didn't tell the crackers that they didn't know how to BBQ... >> Everyone knows you're supposed to purchase porcine flesh for proper >> Southern barbecue. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > best > if I didn't tell the crackers that they didn't know how to BBQ... This cracker dun smoked two turkeys for Thanksgiving. It was the favorite of all the fleshy critters put up for vittles > Lee warned me that it would be best > if I didn't tell the crackers that they didn't know how to BBQ... My recollection of Florida BBQ, I lived there for 12 years in the late mid-70's - mid-80's, was that it was served cold, or as close to cold as room temp gets. Hated it, I would always go looking for either Carolina BBQ sandwich (pulled, sweet sauce with coleslaw on top) or Texas platter (overcooked, tender, served hot with spicy BBQ sauce). But I never did cotton to Florida style BBQ. And I really hated Fat Boy's. We don't get Carolina Q up here in Colorado so I always frequent the Texas places. Hell, even the fast food Texas BBQ places like Dickey's is better than most found around here. I think, here in Denver, I live in the global epicenter of chain food restaurants :^) We even got chain-food Italian up here (Maggiano's), and that is really disheartening......... >> Lee warned me that it would be best >> if I didn't tell the crackers that they didn't know how to BBQ... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > (overcooked, tender, served hot with spicy BBQ sauce). But I never did > cotton to Florida style BBQ. And I really hated Fat Boy's. Sacrilege. Fat Boys is the epitome of BBQ. Lee > But I never did > > cotton to Florida style BBQ. And I really hated Fat Boy's. > > Sacrilege. Fat Boys is the epitome of BBQ. Well, I haven't had any in the last twenty years so maybe those cooks who served room temp meat with bland sauce have died and passed the cooking on to a better generation, man I did not like Fat Boy's. But if there's any redemption for me in the eyes of Floridians, I can say I always liked the revolving bars at ABC as well as Sink or Swim at Big Daddy's! >> But I never did >> > cotton to Florida style BBQ. And I really hated Fat Boy's. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > always liked the revolving bars at ABC as well as Sink or Swim at Big > Daddy's! LOL, the ABC in New Smyrna was one of my hangouts back in the 80's, as well as The Other Place, Moes, Sonny's BBQ and even "The Last Resort", Eileen Wuornos last hangout (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0340855/). No BBQ joint does a better job than me though. I smoke the crittler thing first in tin foil (explains the Alztimer), then put KC Masterpiece BBQ Sauce for the last hour. KC is duh bestest. > LOL, the ABC in New Smyrna was one of my hangouts back in the 80's, as > well as The Other Place, Moes, Sonny's BBQ and even "The Last Resort", > Eileen Wuornos last hangout (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0340855/). > No BBQ joint does a better job than me though. I smoke the crittler thing > first in tin foil (explains the Alztimer), then put KC Masterpiece BBQ > Sauce for the last hour. KC is duh bestest. Sonny's is OK if you don't live far enough south for a Shorty's. The first one, down on S. Dixie Highway, was a wood building with screens covered by plywood that lifts via ropes. When it burned down, they built it back the same way. The other two, one right down the street from me in Davie, the other in Miami, are a bit more modern. They have air conditioning and everything. Lee >> LOL, the ABC in New Smyrna was one of my hangouts back in the 80's, as >> well as The Other Place, Moes, Sonny's BBQ and even "The Last Resort", [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Lee Ever tied Smokey Bones? They smoke the meat and it's pretty tasty. Their BBQ sauce is 90% sugar and the rest is vinegar. It's worth a try. >>> LOL, the ABC in New Smyrna was one of my hangouts back in the 80's, as >>> well as The Other Place, Moes, Sonny's BBQ and even "The Last Resort", [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Ever tied Smokey Bones? They smoke the meat and it's pretty tasty. Their > BBQ sauce is 90% sugar and the rest is vinegar. It's worth a try. ...without the sauce >>>> LOL, the ABC in New Smyrna was one of my hangouts back in the 80's, as >>>> well as The Other Place, Moes, Sonny's BBQ and even "The Last Resort", [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >...without the sauce Smokey Bones, Famous Daves, Sonny's are all just ok at Q'ing as far as chain joints. My experience has been Dave's sauces are the better of the three. But really great smoked meat don't need no sauces. Just good a seasoned rub before smoking. Rick Simms ******************************** There are four types of homicide: 1. felonious, 2. accidental, 3. justifiable, 4. praiseworthy. >From: "Spear Chucky" comquat777@@yahoo.com >Ever tied Smokey Bones? They smoke the meat and it's pretty tasty. Their BBQ >sauce is 90% sugar and the rest is vinegar. It's worth a try. Kimber and I hung out there back in the day. Can't say much for their BBQ, but they damn well know how to serve a drink. Popeye The only working atomic bomb platforms the Japanese ever had were delivered via airmail. > Kimber and I hung out there back in the day. Kimber is "back in the day" already? goddamn. That was fast. That's like saying "back in the day, the Dems ran tight races, like Kerry/Edwards!". Signature"I know we're going to die. There's three of us who are going to do something about it." -Tom Burnett, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 >>From: "Spear Chucky" comquat777@@yahoo.com > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Japanese ever had were delivered via airmail. > yes. Signature""War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse." John Stewart Mill I strongly urge everyone reading this to check out WWW.anysoldier.us, and support our troops with a letter, a package or a donation. >>>LOL, the ABC in New Smyrna was one of my hangouts back in the 80's, as >>>well as The Other Place, Moes, Sonny's BBQ and even "The Last Resort", [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Ever tied Smokey Bones? They smoke the meat and it's pretty tasty. Their BBQ > sauce is 90% sugar and the rest is vinegar. It's worth a try. I thought it was too expensive >>>>LOL, the ABC in New Smyrna was one of my hangouts back in the 80's, as >>>>well as The Other Place, Moes, Sonny's BBQ and even "The Last Resort", [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > I thought it was too expensive A lb of beef or pork is $10. W may have it once a month, if that. We eat Fish is more often "Spear Chucky" wrote > LOL, the ABC in New Smyrna was one of my hangouts back in the 80's, In the mid-70's I hung out at the one on South Orange Blossom trail, just down the road from The Doll House. That place got a mixture of cowboys from Kissimmee, bikers from all along SOBT, drunks from the topless clubs, tourists, dancers (there used to be an apt. complex nearby called Americana in which half the tenants had to have been strippers from all over Orlando) and, of course, Mensa candidates like myself. As much fun as I think I have ever had hanging out at a bar. Constant conflict, followed by over-the-top make-up drinking. Girls, girls, girls. Cheap, cheap, booze. I don't know, maybe I remember it better than it was........but I'm thinking it was better than I am capable of remembering it :^) > "Spear Chucky" wrote > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > thinking > it was better than I am capable of remembering it :^) You mean Sullivan's? Heh...I met my wife there!!! I'd been sick, in bed for a week and it was the first real day of wellness. She was with six other chicks, making sure they were having a good time. It was like she was the host. I figured she'd be the won most willing to dance, boy how'dee. Back then I had a mowing bid'niz, Americana Shopping Center was one of my accounts. When it rained, the place flooded because it was built to low, on a clay field. I couldn't control the algae, the frog or the cat tail in the flowerbeds, that a nightmare. > >> Lee warned me that it would be best > >> if I didn't tell the crackers that they didn't know how to BBQ... [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Lee I think this pretty much says it all... http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/editorials/stories/113004 dnedirecvotes.5152.html mmmm... politics and BBQ... what a combo... > I think this pretty much says it all... http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/editorials/stories/11 3004dnedirecvotes.5152.html > mmmm... politics and BBQ... what a combo... True, but one must disable Javascript first so that one does not need to register at their site... Since BBQ is a religion, we're really just back to talking about politics and religion... Of course, the non-Texans are heathens... > > I think this pretty much says it all... http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/editorials/stories/11 > 3004dnedirecvotes.5152.html > > > > mmmm... politics and BBQ... what a combo... > > True, but one must disable Javascript first so that one does not need to > register at their site... Really? I hadn't even realized that. Of course, I've got Java disabled anyway, so it didn't affect me. > Since BBQ is a religion, we're really just back to > talking about politics and religion... Of course, the non-Texans are > heathens... > Really? I hadn't even realized that. Of course, I've got Java disabled > anyway, so it didn't affect me. Separate issues... Java vs Javascript... It's possible to disable one without disabling the other... > > Really? I hadn't even realized that. Of course, I've got Java disabled > > anyway, so it didn't affect me. > > Separate issues... Java vs Javascript... It's possible to disable one > without disabling the other... My bad, that's what I meant (as in, I've got Javascript disabled anyway...) > A free ride out of Ponce Inlet? Where's that? That does include the ride back, right? > I try to find deals online, believe me. After a few search results though, I > often five up and head over to the shop. Well, if you hadn't used those magic words, "I challenge you", I wouldn't have bothered to do the search... >> A free ride out of Ponce Inlet? > > Where's that? We dive off Daytona Beach, it's pretty hard core, viz is poor most of the time but the fish are there. Back in 94 or so I saw a huge yellow fin tuna inside a wreck. The thing was at least four feet tall and tree feet long, it bunched its self up to fit inside the pilot house of the Domiciles (off Cocoa Beach). All I had then was a little JBL pea shooter. It was the best dive I've ever been on and there was no one to share it with, I had broken the golden rule of diving. The thing turned on a dime to get a good look at me, his eye had to be 10 inches across! and checking me out! I tuned on my Q60 and when the beams hit golden glitters flickered off the walls. Wow. After we had a meeting of the minds it turned around and went out the back door. The while episode lasted 30 seconds. Since then I've bought two bazookas hoping to have another encounter > That does include the ride back, right? I guess >> I try to find deals online, believe me. After a few search results >> though, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Well, if you hadn't used those magic words, "I challenge you", I wouldn't > have bothered to do the search... I try to be polite, life is to short to be sarcastic. > We dive off Daytona Beach Damn, I was just over that area last week working my way back from the Keys... Grace and Kaitlyn flew down to Orlando, so I had to cut my dive vacation short to drive from the Keys to Orlando with less than a day notice so that they could do the Disney crap... > I guess Around this group, you gotta make sure... <grin> > I try to be polite, life is to short to be sarcastic. Nawh, it isn't... >> We dive off Daytona Beach > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > notice > so that they could do the Disney crap... Sorry to hear it. My brother-in-law went Friday to the Magic Kingdom, he said he'll never go again, even if the tickets are free. It was the most crowded time of his life. He spent the while time in line. The sea's have been on and off lately with the cold fronts this am wasn't to bad but the viz has been reported to be 10 ft at best. I hope to get at least one more dive in before Santa comes with a new Farmer John. >> I guess > > Around this group, you gotta make sure... <grin> It is a tough crowd. I joined www.spearboard.com, it seems have a little more camaraderie with people who live in my area. >> I try to be polite, life is to short to be sarcastic. > > Nawh, it isn't... Call me a prude then > Sorry to hear it. My brother-in-law went Friday to the Magic Kingdom, he > said he'll never go again, even if the tickets are free. It was the most > crowded time of his life. He spent the while time in line. We were at Universal Orlando on Friday... Kaitlyn was doing all the water rides / water play areas so that she could get wet and freeze her butt off... There was quite a few people there, but Grace and I didn't do any of the rides, so no real lines to stand in... The line for Starbucks was only a couple of people... > The sea's have been on and off lately with the cold fronts this am wasn't to > bad but the viz has been reported to be 10 ft at best. I got the sh.t beat out of me the previous week in my boat when I went out to Looe Reef from Bohia Honda State Park... Visibility seemed ok, but it was a blur as my boat just pulled me across the reef and sand at a rather quick pace... > I hope to get at least one more dive in before Santa comes with > a new Farmer John. I've got a Harvey FJ with the slick inner skin... I like it quite a bit... First neoprene that I've encountered to which I wasn't allergic (actually, it's probably the glue of the nylon inner linings to which I was being allergic)... > It is a tough crowd. I joined www.spearboard.com, it seems have a little > more camaraderie with people who live in my area. Oh, we have that here... We get together to dive... I got a chance to meet and dive with three of them on my recent trip to Florida... Ended up driving around 3000 miles on the trip... Would have had a fourth for our dives, but he chickened out after we started talking about the best way to BBQ a lawyer... <evil-grin >>> We dive off Daytona Beach >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >said he'll never go again, even if the tickets are free. It was the most >crowded time of his life. He spent the while time in line. Huh? He's nuts. We were at the MK Friday. THURSDAY, we were at Universal and did the ENTIRE park in three hours. One end to the other. The line length for everything was ZERO - even for Back to the Future which usually has a 2+ hour wait. Friday wasn't bad and neither was Saturday. Sunday AM MGM was empty - we got three rides in on the Rockin' Roller Coaster in under 30 minutes. -- SignatureKarl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do! http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind >> I challenge anyone to beat $200 for an AB Biller 48", that's what I paid >> retail at the local dive shop. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > $176.95 -- padauk > $203.95 -- teak The only price is see under $200 is THE STAINLESS STEEL PROFESSIONAL > Didn't take much of a web search to come up with a cheaper price... So, > what > do I win now that I've met your challenge? <grin > > On http://www.discountdivegear.com/mall/spearfishing.asp, they seem to > > have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > The only price is see under $200 is THE STAINLESS STEEL PROFESSIONAL Look again at the prices that I posted above... It's not like I pulled them out of my hat... I don't eat that much fish, so I never bothered to really get into spearfishing (or even regular fishing for that matter)... >> > On http://www.discountdivegear.com/mall/spearfishing.asp, they seem to >> > have [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > out of my hat... I don't eat that much fish, so I never bothered to really > get into spearfishing (or even regular fishing for that matter)... I can dig it. With the cost of the boat (each month) my wife estimates each lb of fish costs about a grand. The experience is exhilarating. I'm not into tourist diving, we dive to hunt. Usually on culverts, bridge rubble and the like. > I can dig it. With the cost of the boat (each month) my wife estimates each > lb of fish costs about a grand. The experience is exhilarating. I'm not into > tourist diving, we dive to hunt. Usually on culverts, bridge rubble and the > like. I tend to like the Florida fresh water springs and caves... I guess I'm just lazy and hate to have to rinse my gear afterwards... <grin> Saw quite a few fish in the cave at Jackson Blue Spring on Saturday... Saw some type of eel back in a corner of the cave also... Was looking down in one of the crevices with my light and though I saw an old black snorkle or something laying across a rock... As I continued to look at it, it seemed to shift somewhat in the water flow, so I started thinking that it was some sort of tubular piece of neoprene... Just as I was trying to figure how I was going to squeeze myself down in there to check it out, it swam away... Just as well since even with the sidemount rig I was wearing, I would have been rather hard pressed to fit in the opening... >> I can dig it. With the cost of the boat (each month) my wife estimates > each [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > since even with the sidemount rig I was wearing, I would have been rather > hard pressed to fit in the opening... I had a friend who was murdered, his older brother who I never knew drowned in Blue Springs. Because of his death a grate was placed over the opening to the "Cathedral". Once inside the Cathedral, the force of the water forces one up to the ceiling. Unless one is as strong as Superman getting back down to the opening can be a killer. I once dove in Ponce Deleon Springs, never intending to go very deep. As dumb as dumb will do I found my self lost. I had to turn my light off to see where the light was coming from, dumb dumb dumb. Ever since then I've never been in a fresh water diver. I'd rather face a 7' barracuda or chase off a shark sniffing at my catch than to dive in a cave again. I just can't trust my self. The lure is to great to go deeper. > I had a friend who was murdered, his older brother who I never knew drowned > in Blue Springs. Because of his death a grate was placed over the opening to > the "Cathedral". Once inside the Cathedral, the force of the water forces > one up to the ceiling. Unless one is as strong as Superman getting back down > to the opening can be a killer. Jackson Blue Springs or one of the many other ******* "Blue Springs" in Florida? I don't see a feature labeled as "Cathedral" on my map of Jackson Blue Springs... http://www.floridacaves.com/jacksonmap.pdf The Blue Springs near Orange City has chewed me up and spit me out many times as I tried to make my way past Cork Rock... Still haven't succeeded... Probably need to take a hammer and chissel down with me and break Cork Rock up a bit so that the opening will be larger and thus the flow perhaps not quite as strong... > I once dove in Ponce Deleon Springs, never intending to go very deep. As > dumb as dumb will do I found my self lost. I had to turn my light off to see > where the light was coming from, dumb dumb dumb. Which Ponce Deleon Springs? The one up near Ocala? I dove there around 1981... They've got it closed off to divers these days from what I understand... My Goodness, what is rec.scuba coming to? People are actually talking about diving. > My Goodness, what is rec.scuba coming to? People are actually talking about > diving. We can change that, can't we, Sugar? What will it be, guns or sex? Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > ? My Goodness, what is rec.scuba coming to? People are actually talking about > ? diving. > > We can change that, can't we, Sugar? > > What will it be, guns or sex? You know I don't like guns. > You know I don't like guns. So, you don't like *big* things that go 'bang', huh? <snicker > > We can change that, can't we, Sugar? > > > > What will it be, guns or sex? > > You know I don't like guns. Yes, I do. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > ? > We can change that, can't we, Sugar? > ? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Yes, I do. ;^) > > ? My Goodness, what is rec.scuba coming to? People are actually talking > about [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > You know I don't like guns. f.ck or fight. Either way, it could be interesting or horrifying. > ? My Goodness, what is rec.scuba coming to? People are actually talking > about [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > What will it be, guns or sex? This is what I pack thanks to thee Katherin Harris... http://www.kel-tec.com/prod02.htm SignatureSC "We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans to legitimately own handguns and rifles" March 1, 1993, Remarks by the President In Discussion With National Service Volunteers, Learning Center New Brunswick, New Jersey > This is what I pack thanks to thee Katherin Harris... > http://www.kel-tec.com/prod02.htm And this is what I pack thanks to George W. Bush... http://www.taurususaphotos.com/Pistols/145SS4.jpg I figure that 11 rounds of .45 ACP Federal HydroShock should solve most differences of opinion... "Care enough to give the very best"... > I figure that 11 rounds of .45 ACP Federal HydroShock should solve most > differences of opinion... "Care enough to give the very best"... What a horrid chunk of sh.t. <nothing personal, just trying to meet the lefties halfyway > What a horrid chunk of sh.t. You have a problem with the round or the weapon? > > What a horrid chunk of sh.t. > > You have a problem with the round or the weapon? Certainly not the round. "When you shoot a man with a .45, the first thing he has to do is get up." I am not a big Tarus fan, let alone plastic ones. But then I liked the .45 AMT Backup. And the longslide Hardballer... > I am not a big Tarus fan, let alone plastic ones. There's a lot of steel in this one... The entire slide is steel (stainless)... Although I would have preferred a gun with more metal, I could not find one that met my requirements of concealability... I've got the same gun in 9mm (PT-111), .40 SW (PT-140), and .45 (PT-145)... Of course, I've also got a Colt in .45, but it does not meet my requirements of concealability for hot climate wear... If I lived up in the frozen northwest like you, perhaps my requirements would be different... <grin> I was talking with one of the Parks & Wildlife officers down in the Key two weeks ago when I was down there and asked him what weapon they carried considering they were in a boat that tended to get them rather wet (according to his description of the boat)... It was one of the Glocks... He said that the cleaning procedures for it was to take it apart each evening, toss it in the dishwasher, and then oil it afterwards... > This is what I pack thanks to thee Katherin Harris... Keep up, or get out. Oh, wait, just get out. Chilly, darling, where were we? Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > ? This is what I pack thanks to thee Katherin Harris... > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Chilly, darling, where were we? I was just about to slip the silky blouse from my shoulders. > > Chilly, darling, where were we? > > I was just about to slip the silky blouse from my shoulders. Slowly, darling, slowly. And you can leave your hat on. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > ? > Chilly, darling, where were we? > ? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > And you can leave your hat on. Ah . . . "The Full Monty". > > ? > Chilly, darling, where were we? > > ? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Ah . . . "The Full Monty". It's what I think of everytime someone tries to tell me white girls don't have any rhythm. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > > ? This is what I pack thanks to thee Katherin Harris... > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I was just about to slip the silky blouse from my shoulders. chilly is not only creative, she's hot... >> > ? This is what I pack thanks to thee Katherin Harris... >> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > chilly is not only creative, she's hot... Got a URL? > >> > ? This is what I pack thanks to thee Katherin Harris... > >> > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Got a URL? never had the chance to meet chilly, but if she ever wants a definitive photograph, I will volunteer. >> >> > ? This is what I pack thanks to thee Katherin Harris... >> >> > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > but if she ever wants a definitive photograph, > I will volunteer. This be me, my 'boating spectacles' and a grill buddy http://www.spearboard.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=119822 > Chilly, darling, where were we? Sex, not guns. Take two. > > Chilly, darling, where were we? > > Sex, not guns. > > Take two. Oh yeah, I completely forgot to ask Jammer where he was . . . > My Goodness, what is rec.scuba coming to? People are > actually talking about diving. Don't worry, it'll morph into a firearm, politics, or sex thread sooner or later... >> I had a friend who was murdered, his older brother who I never knew > drowned [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Blue Springs... > http://www.floridacaves.com/jacksonmap.pdf I couldn't tell ya, it happened in 73. > The Blue Springs near Orange City has chewed me up and spit me out many > times as I tried to make my way past Cork Rock... Still haven't [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > 1981... They've got it closed off to divers these days from what I > understand... That too I can't recall (to much refer madness), it was back in the late 80's. > The Blue Springs near Orange City has chewed me up and spit me out many > times as I tried to make my way past Cork Rock... Still haven't [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > up a bit so that the opening will be larger and thus the flow perhaps not > quite as strong... I think perhaps a solid grate would be a good alternative to the cork rock, _VERY_ few who dive there have the common sense, skills and tools to dive below it without playing Russian Roulette. Besides, you wouldn't be suggesting defacing public property? Curtis > I think perhaps a solid grate would be a good alternative to the cork > rock But what is the challenge in that? The flow velocity would be reduced and one would only need a hacksaw and quite a few dives to remove that pesky grate... > _VERY_ few who dive there have the common sense, skills and tools to > dive below it without playing Russian Roulette. Who said anything about common sense? <grin> Of course it would be a serious challenge... That's the allure of it... Well, that and the fact that no one has explored that area yet... With that much flow, it must have a pretty large cave system there... Once you get past the restriction of Cork Rock, the velocity should decrease if it opens up into a larger area... The thing is, we have a system that everyone basically takes for granted because it is little more than a cavern dive because of one high velocity restriction effectively closing what could be a significant cave system... All that water must be coming from *somewhere*... Yeah, it could be coming from a lot of narrow horizontal planes that are even unpassable in a no-mount configuration, but it *could* be a lot more... Aren't you in the least curious? > Besides, you wouldn't be suggesting defacing public property? Nawh, just correcting something that someone else interferred with quite a few years ago... From what I understand, the current restriction and Cap Rock is the result of someone attempting to dynamite it many years ago... I wonder how much Cap Rock weighs... Could we tie a rope on it and pull it out of there? If all the water is not able to do more than make it wobble, it might take quite a few of us pulling on that rope... > But what is the challenge in that? The flow velocity would be reduced and > one would only need a hacksaw and quite a few dives to remove that pesky > grate... Unfortuneately, that would probably encourage total closure, which almost happened at this site prior to the adoption of the current agreement, signed at diver check-in. >> _VERY_ few who dive there have the common sense, skills and tools to >> dive below it without playing Russian Roulette. > > Who said anything about common sense? <grin> Common sense, skills & tools.......I did. > The thing is, we have a system that everyone basically takes for granted > because it is little more than a cavern dive because of one high velocity [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > no-mount configuration, but it *could* be a lot more... Aren't you in the > least curious? Maybe, but not nearly enough to violate the terms of permission, or to attempt a stunt dive. I have the personal discipline to follow the rules I agree to dive to, even if they "seem" silly to me. Minor detail, even the deep air dummies would recommend a better choice of breathing gasses at the suspected depth of the system. Curtis > Unfortuneately, that would probably encourage total closure, which almost > happened at this site prior to the adoption of the current agreement, signed > at diver check-in. As long as the spring flows into the river, they can't really close the site... OK, a certain amount of dynamite would do it, but I suspect that they wouldn't go that far... It would be a long swim from the river though... I'm actually rather surprised that they can legally put the swim float barriers across the spring blocking a navigable waterway like that... I don't believe that we should allow the nanny state to dictate our actions... I do not believe that it should be the responsibility of the state to protect one from natural selection... > Common sense, skills & tools.......I did. Picky, picky... > Maybe, but not nearly enough to violate the terms of permission, or to > attempt a stunt dive. I don't think that I would consider it a stunt dive... At least not anymore than any of the Wakula dives... It's exploration... Am I qualified? Probably not, but that doen't mean that I still don't want to know what is back there... If I lived in the area, I would probably try a little harder to find out what is past Cap Rock... As it is, I've only been back there a few times in the last 20+ years and each time, it's chewed me up, spit me out, and put me back on the overhead... I'm persistant -- and consistant... > I have the personal discipline to follow the rules I agree to dive to, > even if they "seem" silly to me. Me too... Of course I don't think that there were any rules that I agreed to, so following those rules is a lot easier... <evil-grin> > Minor detail, even the deep air dummies would recommend > a better choice of breathing gasses at the suspected depth of > the system. Well, that would probably be the limit of my exploration then... I'm not ready for dives that require the logistical support of the WKPP... I would be happy to just be able to get past Cap Rock after all these years... I've been chewed up and spit out so many times by that damn water flow coming past Cap Rock that I've lost count... For some reason, the image of Don Quixote and windmills comes to mind... >> Unfortuneately, that would probably encourage total closure, which almost >> happened at this site prior to the adoption of the current agreement, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > float barriers across the spring blocking a navigable waterway like > that... They can and do. > I don't believe that we should allow the nanny state to dictate our > actions... I do not believe that it should be the responsibility of the > state to protect one from natural selection... Neither did the last pair I saw handcuffed; however, they were rather silent at the time. >> Common sense, skills & tools.......I did. > > Picky, picky... Attention to details. >> Maybe, but not nearly enough to violate the terms of permission, or to >> attempt a stunt dive. > I don't think that I would consider it a stunt dive... At least not > anymore > than any of the Wakula dives... That comparison could only be drawn by the totally clueless. > It's exploration... Am I qualified? > Probably not, but that doen't mean that I still don't want to know what is > back there... Nothing in there worth dying for. >> I have the personal discipline to follow the rules I agree to dive to, >> even if they "seem" silly to me. > > Me too... Of course I don't think that there were any rules that I agreed > to, so following those rules is a lot easier... <evil-grin> Then we will not discuss criminal activities. >> Minor detail, even the deep air dummies would recommend >> a better choice of breathing gasses at the suspected depth of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > been chewed up and spit out so many times by that damn water flow coming > past Cap Rock that I've lost count... Impaired judgement at 120 ffw on air? Just a little bit in....... > For some reason, the image of Don > Quixote and windmills comes to mind... I have images of a bloated, water logged body being dislodged partially dismembered by grappling hooks, a middle-aged widow in tears trying to explain to a young daughter how it's all gonna be ok, just a Darwinian selection thingy, and Daddy will always be there watching over from heaven. I sincerely hope that never describes anyone I like. End of discussion for me. Curtis "Curtis" > They can and do. Probably yet another thing that the government does that is illegal but is able to get away with it... > That comparison could only be drawn by the totally clueless. How so? Is Wakula beyond the ability of most recreational cavers? Considering the depth and distance, it doesn't make much of an air dive, so I would hazard to guess that it might be... Blue Springs is likely the same way... Actually, I would probably be satisfied if GUE decided to explore past Cap Rock... There would be a certain vindication in at least *someone* proving my suspicions... If they found a large cave system, it would be even better... Maybe it's beyond my ability, but I don't believe that we should just automatically assume that certain things are impossible... What would it take to get past the flow of Cap Rock? Some sort of hard hat diving? Although I've been chewed up and spit out numerous times, I've yet to have my mask or regulator ripped off my face in the process... I suspect that is more because of luck than any inherent ability on my part... <grin> > Nothing in there worth dying for. Perhaps not, but a person does not do such endeavors if they think that they are going to die... Of course, those who have died didn't think they were going to die either... > Impaired judgement at 120 ffw on air? Just a little bit in....... Hell, I've never even made it that "little bit in"... That's probably what irritates me the most... It's kind of like every time I come to the door, it gets slammed in my face... > I have images of a bloated, water logged body being dislodged partially > dismembered by grappling hooks, a middle-aged widow in tears trying to > explain to a young daughter how it's all gonna be ok, just a Darwinian > selection thingy, and Daddy will always be there watching over from heaven. Oh? When was that? > I sincerely hope that never describes anyone I like. Considering the fact that I don't live nearby, it's unlikely that I'll ever get a chance... It doesn't mean that I'm not extremely curious about what lies past Cap Rock though... .. >Internet shop= no overheads and no stock,just a distributor sending you >whatever from main supplier. You're painting with a very wide brush here! This may be true for some businesses, but my personal experience suggest that most internet SCBUA shops are part of an regular, "local"/"full-service" shop, selling merchiandise they stock as a delaer and/or have obtained via the "grey market". SignatureCharlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying) All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. |
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