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Scuba Forum / General / September 2004Where do You Get Your Equipment? Store vs. Internet?
Where do most of you get your equipment from? At an actual dive store or off the internet? The reason I ask is because I stopped in at my local dive store this evening. My former dive instructor wasn't there, just his wife. Anyway, after talking with her about my upcoming cruise and a possible future advanced open water class, I bought a couple of dive related t-shirts and a log book holder. After that I told her I've been looking at equipment on the internet and how much cheaper I can get that equipment off the net. I said I know divers are supposed to support there local dive store, but when I'm on the net, I can view many products, and plus get them at a price I can afford. She basically said 'yeah, but would you buy a parachute off the net?' I asked if her husband would be pissed off if I showed up for the advanced open water course with a bcd I bought off the net. She said "well, he would probably think to himself 'dang lost another one to the internet!" I told her that she's looking at someone that buys books, dvd's, Christmas, and even cars off the net. And it's really hard not to buy this stuff off the net. Heck, I looked at all the bcd's they had for sale. They were all in the $540.00 range. The Oceanic computers they had were the high end ones - over $500.00 Last night I was looking at some internet shop, they had a nice Aeris Atmos 1 for around $250.00 Now, I can afford paying that, but not $550.00 Again, I know your supposed to support your dive shop. But come on, I would feel like a fool paying dive shop prices when I can get it so cheap off the net. I told my brother about my conversation. He thought it was rude of me to do that. He said it sounded like I teased her. Well, I was just being honest. Heck, I spent $450 for private lessons. $250 for fins, mask, snorkel, and boots. Plus the t-shirts I bought today and dive log holder came to about $65.00 That's almost $800.00 I don't think I owe any obligation to spend any more money at their shop unless it's on more lessons. Their advanced lessons are $130 Plus it would cost be around $70 or $80 to rent the equipment (bcd, regs/gauges,wet suit, weights, tanks). I don't know about any of you, but I feel just as safe buying off the net as I do in a store. To me, they are the same. And after I do some diving on my cruse (if I get to dive, I don't know what's really going to happen because of hurricane Ivan) and I had a fun time, I can see myself coming home, doing a little research on the net, and order me a new bcd off the net, for $250-$300. Not $550.00 I can also see myself ordering the regs I want at an ok price, plus order the octo I want. I wonder what my former dive instructor would say if I brought in brand new regs, octo and computer, and ask him if he would put the octo and computer onto the first stage, for a price of course. Well all I can deal with is my experience. I bought a boat bag on the net for my first dive trip. After about 1 year the straps tore out of the bag body, I tried to find the net operation I bout it from, they were gone. The mask I bought at the dive shop I certed with started to leak around the lense in its third year, I showed it to the shop owner, he pulled a new one out of the box and handed it to me. Said "it shouldn't do that, I'll send it back". > Where do most of you get your equipment from? At an actual dive store >or off the internet? [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >computer, and ask him if he would put the octo and computer onto the first >stage, for a price of course. Blah, blah, blah. f.ck em. They don't deserve your money just because they're the closest shop to you. If they can't compete, they can't compete. Bought from both. > Where do most of you get your equipment from? At an actual dive store > or off the internet? It's kinda hard to try on a BCD over the internet and see how it fits your body. Or get someone to show you all the whiz bang dodas, what they do and where they go and how the weightpockets work, etc. It's hard to try sample product out in the internet shop pool, if ya follow my drift. If you go and use your dive shop to show you all these things and then order off the internet instead, that's a bit like stealing, if you think about it. > The reason I ask is because I stopped in at my local dive store this > evening. My former dive instructor wasn't there, just his wife. > > Anyway, after talking with her about my upcoming cruise and a possible > future advanced open water class, I bought a couple of dive related t-shirts > and a log book holder. That's the kinda crap you should buy off the internet. > After that I told her I've been looking at equipment on the internet and > how much cheaper I can get that equipment off the net. I said I know divers [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > But come on, I would feel like a fool paying dive shop prices when I can get > it so cheap off the net. Like I said, just so long as you aren't using the shop's sales staff to size for you and show you how everything operates, then turning around and using their workproduct to buy off the internet. Also, who are you going to go to take care of anything that's not right, needs to be exchanged, etc? > I told my brother about my conversation. He thought it was rude of me > to do that. He said it sounded like I teased her. Well, I was just being [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > lessons. Their advanced lessons are $130 Plus it would cost be around $70 > or $80 to rent the equipment (bcd, regs/gauges,wet suit, weights, tanks). For the most part, lessons are a "loss leader" for a dive shop. They don't make money training people to dive, they make money selling gear to those they've trained. > I don't know about any of you, but I feel just as safe buying off the > net as I do in a store. To me, they are the same. Hey, if you feel safe buying your gear off the internet when you haven't even had 20 dives yet, what can I possibly tell you? You'/ve got it all cased. (sarcasm) >And after I do some > diving on my cruse (if I get to dive, I don't know what's really going to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > computer, and ask him if he would put the octo and computer onto the first > stage, for a price of course. Whatever. > > Where do most of you get your equipment from? At an actual dive store > > or off the internet? Most of my equipment came from shops. I'm not normally a fan of internet or catalog shopping. I like to touch, talk about and sometimes try out my expensive toys before buying them. On the other hand, most of my electronics come from on line retailers. > It's kinda hard to try on a BCD over the internet and see how it fits your > body. Or get someone to show you all the whiz bang dodas, what they do and > where they go and how the weightpockets work, etc. It's hard to try sample > product out in the internet shop pool, if ya follow my drift. Yep. Dive shops compete on the basis of service, advice and personal attention. Many of us find that a relationship with a dive shop is part of the social side of diving that we enjoy so much. An on line retailer isn't going to provide the same personal touch and is highly unlikely to be able to show you what one product is superior, or a better deal, than another. > If you go and use your dive shop to show you all these things and then order > off the internet instead, that's a bit like stealing, if you think about it. Not at all. The shop is marketing their product, service. If, after all their efforts, you don't pay for it, that's a risk you take in business. On the other hand, it won't be long before the shop won't spend a lot of time helping you decide what to buy from somebody else. Their business depends on providing service to those that will pay for it and they have limited time for those that won't. > > nyway, after talking with her about my upcoming cruise and a possible > > future advanced open water class, I bought a couple of dive related > > t-shirts and a log book holder. > > That's the kinda crap you should buy off the internet. We're not in agreement on this. There are a lot of things we buy on impulse. Shops have to make their money somewhere and impulse items are as good a place as any. If buying crap like this from the local shop keeps the relationship going, where's the harm. > > I told my brother about my conversation. He thought it was rude of me > > to do that. It depends on how you did it, but he was probably right. > > He said it sounded like I teased her. He was probably right again. > > Well, I was just being honest. Being honest does not mean it was not rude. > > I don't think I owe any > > obligation to spend any more money at their shop unless it's on more > > lessons. You don't owe them more on lessons either. Just don't be surprised, or upset, if they don't spend as much time with you as they do with those that do buy from them. Lee > > > Where do most of you get your equipment from? At an actual dive store > > > or off the internet? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > expensive toys before buying them. On the other hand, most of my > electronics come from on line retailers. And in that regard, VonF is not anywhere near as experienced or knowledgable as are you. After 30 years or so of diving, I'm sure my advice would be a bit different. > > It's kinda hard to try on a BCD over the internet and see how it fits your > > body. Or get someone to show you all the whiz bang dodas, what they do [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > on providing service to those that will pay for it and they have limited > time for those that won't. If you are only using the shop's services to help you make your internet selections, then I think it is a bit like stealing, if you think about it. I don't think anyone is saying that you shouldn't research prices on the internet and then negotiate with the shop to see if they can get you a better price than that tagged on the product hanging at the shop. > > > nyway, after talking with her about my upcoming cruise and a possible > > > future advanced open water class, I bought a couple of dive related [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > good a place as any. If buying crap like this from the local shop keeps the > relationship going, where's the harm. That's true enough if you are also buying the items that they make the real money on. I don't think that there are any dive shops that could continue to exist by selling only t-shirts and log binders. Maybe a dollar store could do it. Hey! There's a new business idea . . . a shop that only sells low mark up items. Yup, sounds like a winner. (wg) (snip) > That's true enough if you are also buying the items that they make the real > money on. I don't think that there are any dive shops that could continue [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Hey! There's a new business idea . . . a shop that only sells low mark up > items. Yup, sounds like a winner. (wg) You think T shirts at $20 a pop are low markup? Lee > > That's true enough if you are also buying the items that they make the > real [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > You think T shirts at $20 a pop are low markup? I think they don't sell enough t-shirts in a month to pay the rent. While most people probably know this, most are probably not actively thinking about it (from my observations). Your local dive shop has overhead. Huge overhead. Chances are they not only have to pay their rent, hydro, telephone, internet, wages etc, but are likely paying an additional premium for their location. They have wages and uniforms for their employees, and they have their local advertising expenses. A fair bit to handle. They have to obviously mark up their items in order to stay in business and but food on the table. Additionally they have to purchase all their product from their distributor in order to ensure the product they sell is a warranty item. Not to mention the dealer fees on top of it all. Online dive shops have some of the expenses, but certainly not all of them. Uniforms likely don't exist (I cannot say from experience - we are actually a local dive shop that also sells online), strategic location also doesn't factor - some space in an industrial area will do the trick.. heck ones garage for all I know. The biggest advantage though is buying items direct from manufacturers outside of the country, and not paying any dealer fees, or the usual markup from a distributor, which is why online shops have typically far lower prices. In summation: it is very very hard for a dive shop to compete with an online store. Very hard indeed. This is from personal observation here at our store. Just some food for thought. Brad The Deep End www.deependscuba.com > > > That's true enough if you are also buying the items that they make the > > real [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I think they don't sell enough t-shirts in a month to pay the rent. >From: "brad@The Deep End" REMOVEwebmaster@deepend.on.ca >Date: 9/10/2004 6:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >The Deep End >www.deependscuba.com Your overhead is simply not my problem. If you want (a surplus of) my money for an identical product, you'll have to give me some specific added value, not a sob story about uniforms and utility bills. It's just not my problem. Popeye Self improvement is masterbation. Self destruction is the answer. Tyler Durden > >From: "brad@The Deep End" REMOVEwebmaster@deepend.on.ca > >Date: 9/10/2004 6:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Popeye And nor should it be. I am trying to bring to light an average dive shop vs an average online store. Our store does not suffer from the problems of either - we like to think we have found some middle ground and merged the benefits of each. We like to think we offer a fair product for a fair price. We often give good deals and discounts to our customers. ($500.00 Canadian for a Sherwood Avid BCD - yeah I know you don't like it - but I'm demonstrating a point). I'm not making a sob story. Here is some food for thought though. Do you think YOUR local dive shop would be open much longer if they offered 50% off to every customer for an extended period of time? I question it. I really really do. Again, more food for thought. <shrug> I'm really hoping your blinders come off soon. Brad >From: "brad@The Deep End" REMOVEwebmaster@deepend.on.ca >> It's just not my problem. >And nor should it be. > >I am trying to bring to light an average dive shop vs an average online >store. You need a little more wattage. Try it from a consumer perspective. >Our store does not suffer from the problems of either - we like to think we >have found some middle ground and merged the benefits of each. We like to >think we offer a fair product for a fair price. I worked as a gear tech for Diver's Supply. Ever heard of them? When you get 6 more shops in three more states (provinces?), you'll be sort of like them. >I'm not making a sob story. You just did. >Do you think YOUR local dive shop would be open much longer if they offered >50% off to every customer for an extended period of time? I question it. I >really really do. The 50% discount came from Scubapro. They do it every year. >I'm really hoping your blinders come off soon. My vision is perfect, actually, as is my familiarity with diving, local dive shops, and internet shops. I've done internet business with and been in at least 7 internet scuba ops, among hundreds of other diveshops. Maybe you should work on -your- blinders first... This place was what it is years before we knew your name, and it'll be the same years after we forget it. We're not interested in your terms. We already have our own. Popeye Self improvement is masterbation. Self destruction is the answer. Tyler Durden > >From: "brad@The Deep End" REMOVEwebmaster@deepend.on.ca > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > Self improvement is masterbation. Self > destruction is the answer. Tyler Durden Popeye. I really though that you could support a meaningful analytical conversation. Clearly I was mistaken. Bugger off. Brad > I really though that you could support a meaningful analytical conversation. > Clearly I was mistaken. Bugger off. Oh, that was a bad choice... Do you fish?  Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > ? I really though that you could support a meaningful analytical conversation. > ? Clearly I was mistaken. Bugger off. > > Oh, that was a bad choice... > > Do you fish? I bet he cant secure a KABAR in his buttcrack. > > ? I really though that you could support a meaningful analytical > > conversation. ? Clearly I was mistaken. Bugger off. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I bet he cant secure a KABAR in his buttcrack. I bet we're about to find out... Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > Popeye. > > I really though that you could support a meaningful analytical conversation. > Clearly I was mistaken. Bugger off. Uh oh.... >From: "brad@The Deep End" REMOVEwebmaster@deepend.on.ca >Popeye. > >I really though that you could support a meaningful analytical conversation. >Clearly I was mistaken. Bugger off. Don't let the internet slam you in the a.s on the way out, skippy. Try back sometime when you're dry behind the ears. Popeye Self improvement is masterbation. Self destruction is the answer. Tyler Durden > >From: "brad@The Deep End" REMOVEwebmaster@deepend.on.ca > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Self improvement is masterbation. Self > destruction is the answer. Tyler Durden I'm not leaving. Brad > I'm not leaving. Yes, you are. Sooner or later. One way or another. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > > >From: "brad@The Deep End" REMOVEwebmaster@deepend.on.ca > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Brad Not yet, anyway, but I noticed you've removed all references to your employer from your header and signature. Perhaps you were reflecting badly on them? >From: "brad" REMOVEdjwikwyre@yahoo.com >Date: 9/13/2004 3:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Brad You'll never know how little we give a damn. I don't think you're a bad guy, you just need to learn when to shut the f.ck up. Your little blurb on "home made" backplates was entertainment quality. Why don't you read a little, learn something, share your knowledge with others, and cut the fuckin spam? Popeye "God, God, why did you put so many a.sholes in the world at the same time?" Major Santini > >I'm not leaving. > > > >Brad > > You'll never know how little we give a damn. We think he's already gone. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > Your overhead is simply not my problem. Yes, it is. Why don't you think that over, and then tell us why it could be? Take the other side of the question. If, of course, sailors have that kind of imagination. I'm still waiting on that cite for a dive store owner with either a Beamer, a Merc, or a kid in college. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 >From: Jammer Six jammer@invalid.oz.net >Date: 9/10/2004 8:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Yes, it is. No, it's not. >Why don't you think that over, and then tell us why it could be? I already did... >I'm still waiting on that cite for a dive store owner with either a >Beamer, a Merc, or a kid in college. If we don't make it in time... Start without us. Popeye Self improvement is masterbation. Self destruction is the answer. Tyler Durden > >Why don't you think that over, and then tell us why it could be? > > I already did... You sticking with that? You're going to claim that that is really the limits of your imagination? When and if I point out the obvious, you hereby admit that you were mentally and psychologically incapable of thinking it through, and arriving at that same conclusion, in spite of being challenged to? We are *HIGHLY* amused... Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > We are *HIGHLY* amused... Trust me on this one, you actually are about to be amused. >From: Jammer Six jammer@invalid.oz.net >Date: 9/10/2004 10:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >mentally and psychologically incapable of thinking it through, and >arriving at that same conclusion, in spite of being challenged to? Wha.. do you... HUH? >We are *HIGHLY* amused... Glad to be of service... Popeye Self improvement is masterbation. Self destruction is the answer. Tyler Durden > >When and if I point out the obvious, you hereby admit that you were > >mentally and psychologically incapable of thinking it through, and > >arriving at that same conclusion, in spite of being challenged to? > > Wha.. do you... HUH? Oh, hell... Sailors. Jesus. Never mind. Carry on, and pretend we all agree with you. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 >From: Jammer Six jammer@invalid.oz.net >Date: 9/11/2004 8:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Never mind. Carry on, and pretend we all agree with you. This must be one of those condomdrums you hear about... Popeye Self improvement is masterbation. Self destruction is the answer. Tyler Durden > € Your overhead is simply not my problem. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I'm still waiting on that cite for a dive store owner with either a > Beamer, a Merc, or a kid in college. Ed Murphy, owner of American Dive Center, Boca Raton, owns a Mercedes. > > ? Your overhead is simply not my problem. > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Ed Murphy, owner of American Dive Center, Boca Raton, owns a Mercedes. Does his staff wear uniforms? >> > I'm still waiting on that cite for a dive store owner with either a >> > Beamer, a Merc, or a kid in college. >> >> Ed Murphy, owner of American Dive Center, Boca Raton, owns a Mercedes. > > Does his staff wear uniforms? I've never been in a dive shop where they wear uniforms. > >> > I'm still waiting on that cite for a dive store owner with either a > >> > Beamer, a Merc, or a kid in college. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I've never been in a dive shop where they wear uniforms. ;^) Me either. Divers den in Tobermory has their employees wear matching colored pants, as well as branded t-shirts. Uniform doesn't mean a smock or some military garb... A Uniform "nature" of appearance. Brad > > >> > I'm still waiting on that cite for a dive store owner with either a > > >> > Beamer, a Merc, or a kid in college. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > ;^) Me either. > Uniform doesn't mean a smock or some military garb... A Uniform "nature" of > appearance. Oh, good, a grammar expert. We've been waiting for you. This place is a rat's nest of uneducated, uncouth, semi-literate motherf..kers. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > ? Uniform doesn't mean a smock or some military garb... A Uniform "nature" of > ? appearance. > > Oh, good, a grammar expert. > > We've been waiting for you. This place is a rat's nest of uneducated, > uncouth, semi-literate motherf..kers. Like I. >Divers den in Tobermory has their employees wear matching colored pants, as >well as branded t-shirts. The question is, who pays for the clothes? The shop or the individual? >Uniform doesn't mean a smock or some military garb... A Uniform "nature" of >appearance. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> >> ;^) Me either. Signaturedillon When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark and the horse's name was Bob. > >Divers den in Tobermory has their employees wear matching colored pants, as > >well as branded t-shirts. > > The question is, who pays for the clothes? The shop or the > individual? At a few of the local fast food chains, the employee rents the uniform ($7/month) and, if they return it in an unusable condition at the end of their employment they are required to purchase it. >From: "brad" REMOVEdjwikwyre@yahoo.com >Date: 9/13/2004 3:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Uniform doesn't mean a smock or some military garb... A Uniform "nature" of >appearance. How then, does that affect shop overhead? Since that was your original context... Popeye "God, God, why did you put so many a.sholes in the world at the same time?" Major Santini > I wonder what my former dive instructor would > say if I brought in brand new regs, octo and > computer, and ask him if he would put the octo > and computer onto the first stage, for a price of course. He would say that you were an idiot that in that you were so dumb that you couldn't even screw on your own 2nd stages to your 1st stage... In other words, his preferred customer... Before you go thinking about those BCs at the shop or the typical ones you're going to find on the net, seriously consider going the backplate (aluminum or steel) and wings route... Once you know what you're doing, you can even find good deals on used equipment on eBay... I've picked up some 1st stages, tanks, and an aluminum backplate... > Before you go thinking about those BCs at the shop or the typical ones > you're going to find on the net, seriously consider going the backplate > (aluminum or steel) and wings route... He's not even close to ready. He's buying gear off the internet. He has at least four stages to go through before he's ready for us. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > He has at least four stages to go through before he's ready for us. Yup, stage four, senile-dumb-fork, will take a few more years of rec.scuba to attain. > > He has at least four stages to go through before he's ready for us. > > Yup, stage four, senile-dumb-fork, will take a few more years of rec.scuba > to attain. [snicker] Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 >From: "ben bradlee" up2u2figr@NoWay.zip >Date: 9/10/2004 3:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Yup, stage four, senile-dumb-fork, will take a few more years of rec.scuba >to attain. How long have you been here, Ken? Popeye Self improvement is masterbation. Self destruction is the answer. Tyler Durden > ? Before you go thinking about those BCs at the shop or the typical ones > ? you're going to find on the net, seriously consider going the backplate [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > He has at least four stages to go through before he's ready for us. When you're right, you're right. > Where do most of you get your equipment from? At an actual dive store > or off the internet? www.aquasportscuba.com Talk to Charlene. She's the Bryce Christie of the dive shop world. Brian Edmonton, Alberta www.mossmanscuba.com > > Where do most of you get your equipment from? At an actual dive store > > or off the internet? > > www.aquasportscuba.com > > Talk to Charlene. She's the Bryce Christie of the dive shop world. This I will support. :^) > > Talk to Charlene. She's the Bryce Christie of the dive shop world. > > This I will support. :^) Now, that's what I call a referral! Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > Where do most of you get your equipment from? At an actual dive store > or off the internet? Actual dive store. > The reason I ask is because I stopped in at my local dive store this > evening. My former dive instructor wasn't there, just his wife. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > are supposed to support there local dive store, but when I'm on the net, I > can view many products, and plus get them at a price I can afford. She Understood, but a good dive shop will offer more for the buck than just the equipment. You can actually see the stuff at the store, try it on, etc. > basically said 'yeah, but would you buy a parachute off the net?' I asked > if her husband would be pissed off if I showed up for the advanced open [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > had a nice Aeris Atmos 1 for around $250.00 Now, I can afford paying that, > but not $550.00 Again, I know your supposed to support your dive shop. Ok, thats just 300.00 diffeence. > But come on, I would feel like a fool paying dive shop prices when I can get > it so cheap off the net. Tell ya what - try getting the advanced open water cert off the net. :-) > I told my brother about my conversation. He thought it was rude of me > to do that. He said it sounded like I teased her. Well, I was just being > honest. Heck, I spent $450 for private lessons. $250 for fins, mask, > snorkel, and boots. Plus the t-shirts I bought today and dive log holder > came to about $65.00 That's almost $800.00 I don't think I owe any How many hours were the class, and work out the hourly rate for yourself. :-) My shop typically spends 32 hours (8 2-hour class sessions and 8 2-hour pool sessions) for an open water class. Private students cost about the same as you mentioned. Lets say it costs about $50.00 an hour to run their pool, so that $1600.00 in pool expenses for that $450 class. > obligation to spend any more money at their shop unless it's on more > lessons. Their advanced lessons are $130 Plus it would cost be around $70 > or $80 to rent the equipment (bcd, regs/gauges,wet suit, weights, tanks). Wait a sec...thats $210, plus $65.00 you spent on t-shirts and log holder....is $275. add that to the price difference of the BCs and voila you could afford it. > I don't know about any of you, but I feel just as safe buying off the > net as I do in a store. To me, they are the same. And after I do some [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > computer, and ask him if he would put the octo and computer onto the first > stage, for a price of course. It would depend on how much research you did at his store before purchasing off the net. You'd still get good customer service, of course. However, some of the "extras" would likely be missing. Dennis > How many hours were the class, and work out the hourly rate for yourself. > :-) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Lets say it costs about $50.00 an hour to run their pool, so that $1600.00 > in pool expenses for that $450 class. With 8760 hours in a year, their pool bill would come out to be $438,000. Sounds a bit high to me, by a few hundred thousand dollars. j > > How many hours were the class, and work out the hourly rate for yourself. > > :-) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > With 8760 hours in a year, their pool bill would come out to be $438,000. > Sounds a bit high to me, by a few hundred thousand dollars. a tad cheaper when the pool's covered, lights, etc. Dennis > j .. ... Heck, I looked at all the bcd's they had for sale. They were all >in the $540.00 range. The Oceanic computers they had were the high end >ones - over $500.00 Last night I was looking at some internet shop, they >had a nice Aeris Atmos 1 for around $250.00 Now, I can afford paying that, >but not $550.00 ... This is not so much a Dive Shop vs Internet question. It is more or a question of what seller carries what you want. You may be able to find a local shop that carries computers in the $250-300 range. If so, the cost difference may be worth it to be able to look at and evaluate the computer "hands on" before you buy. That said, for the difference between $500 and $250 I would buy a computer over the net in a instant. And, frankly, for most recreational diving, computers in the $200-300 range may actually be a better choice! SignatureCharlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying) All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. > .. > ... Heck, I looked at all the bcd's they had for sale. They were all [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > over the net in a instant. And, frankly, for most recreational diving, > computers in the $200-300 range may actually be a better choice! For someone at your experience level sure, but for VonF, that will only work if he can understand all of the computer manual. > > .. > > ... Heck, I looked at all the bcd's they had for sale. They were [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > For someone at your experience level sure, but for VonF, that will only work > if he can understand all of the computer manual. Hey, both Oceanic and Aeris have their computer manuals online. You can down load them in a pdf format. I've read two of Oceanic manuals a few weeks ago, one was for the top of the line hose-less computer, the other for one of there $250 computers. Both easy to understand. Last night I read the complete manual for the Aeris top of the line Atmos ai, also the Atmos 1. Again, both easy to understand. Heck, I even read how to run the simulator mode in the Atmos ai. I think all these dive computers, at least from Oceanic and Aeris, seem to offer the same stuff for around the same price. The only thing I really like about the expensive ones are where you can set alarms for your tank pressure. But in my case, I think a computer like the Aeris Atmos 1 would suit me nicely. Also, I think I would be more comfortable reading a standard pressure gauge instead of a digital one. How long do dive computers last anyway? Anywhere near eight years or longer? I'm not talking about battery life, but how many years you can get out of computer. > > > .. > > > ... Heck, I looked at all the bcd's they had for sale. They were [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > like the Aeris Atmos 1 would suit me nicely. Also, I think I would be more > comfortable reading a standard pressure gauge instead of a digital one. my console has pressure, depth, compass, and a small knife. all analog. my dive computer is hoseless. the air integration means that i can see time remaining, and it varies with both depth and consumption rate. in practice, you can show tank time remaining as 15 minutes for about 45 minutes, with no effort, as you slowly ascend along the reef. > How long do dive computers last anyway? Anywhere near eight years or > longer? I'm not talking about battery life, but how many years you can get > out of computer. > How long do dive computers last anyway? For who? Signature"C'mon, you sons of bitches, you want to live forever?" -Sergeant Major Dan Daly > ? How long do dive computers last anyway? > > For who? For you! > > ? How long do dive computers last anyway? > > > > For who? > > For you! Forever. Homo Sapiens Mk1 MOD 0 > one of there $250 computers. Both easy to understand. Aren't you the guy that is still trying to figure out the "time" thing? > Last night I read > the complete manual for the Aeris top of the line Atmos ai, also the Atmos [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > like the Aeris Atmos 1 would suit me nicely. Also, I think I would be more > comfortable reading a standard pressure gauge instead of a digital one. Unh hunh. > How long do dive computers last anyway? Anywhere near eight years or > longer? I'm not talking about battery life, but how many years you can get > out of computer. You'll see. > Where do most of you get your equipment from? At an actual dive store > or off the internet? The fact that yer already considering buying gear without having gained the experience to guide yer purchasing decisions, indicates that you will be buying worthless junk that you will have no use for in the future. Buy it on the internet. Package deals. If ya actually end up diving enough to justify owning yer own gear, you'll figure out that yer package is embarrasingly shoddy and inappropriate for the diving ya do, and you will have to replace yer internet bargains. Buy it from a good shop. If ya dive enough to figger out that all this gear stuff is just very low-tech valves, hoses, and plastic bags, you'll come up with requirements that yer dive shop can't fill. Make yer own. >From: mike gray scrubadub@att.net >Date: 9/10/2004 10:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >the experience to guide yer purchasing decisions, indicates that you >will be buying worthless junk that you will have no use for in the future. Yup. >Buy it on the internet. Package deals. > >If ya actually end up diving enough to justify owning yer own gear, >you'll figure out that yer package is embarrasingly shoddy and >inappropriate for the diving ya do, and you will have to replace yer >internet bargains. www.deependscuba.com Get their zippy $1200 Sherwood package, and don't forget to ask for complimentory Seadrops. >Buy it from a good shop. Gotta have the wherewithall to recognize one. >If ya dive enough to figger out that all this gear stuff is just very >low-tech valves, hoses, and plastic bags, you'll come up with >requirements that yer dive shop can't fill. > >Make yer own When's the test drive? ;-) Popeye Self improvement is masterbation. Self destruction is the answer. Tyler Durden Hello Popeye, Can I continually expect your slanderous tone? Brad The Deep End www.deependscuba.com > >From: mike gray scrubadub@att.net > >Date: 9/10/2004 10:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Self improvement is masterbation. Self > destruction is the answer. Tyler Durden > Hello Popeye, > > Can I continually expect your slanderous tone? <snicker> BTW - do you know what "top posting" is and why it's frowned upon? >From: Alan Street agstreet@nonono_san.rr.com >Date: 9/10/2004 6:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >BTW - do you know what "top posting" is and why it's frowned upon? Apparently he hasn't made it past "spamming" yet. Popeye Self improvement is masterbation. Self destruction is the answer. Tyler Durden > >From: Alan Street agstreet@nonono_san.rr.com > >Date: 9/10/2004 6:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Self improvement is masterbation. Self > destruction is the answer. Tyler Durden Pardon? Brad > > ><snicker> > > > > > >BTW - do you know what "top posting" is and why it's frowned upon? > > > > Apparently he hasn't made it past "spamming" yet. > Pardon? > > Brad As we watch Brad already start to fall apart at the seams... Kimber Signature"How does one become a butterfly? You must want to fly so much that you are willing to give up being a caterpillar." - Trina Paulus > > > ><snicker> > > > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Kimber Thanks for the support. I'm rather used to this stuff. Im just appauled by the absolute rudeness.Ive been subjected to. Look guys. truce. No more spam from me (maybe the occasional plug), you guys get off my back. (Remember, I am just doing my job). Brad > Thanks for the support. I'm rather used to this stuff. Im just appauled by > the absolute rudeness.Ive been subjected to. Then you better get the f.ck out. Now. > Look guys. truce. No more spam from me (maybe the occasional plug), you guys > get off my back. (Remember, I am just doing my job). No. Spam here, and you'll end up pregnant. Signature"A bunch of us went down to Gettysburg. Some of us didn't come back. If you weren't there, you'll never understand." -Unknown Infantryman >From: Jammer Six jammer@invalid.oz.net >€ In article , <"brad@The>wrote: >€ Thanks for the support. >Spam here, and you'll end up pregnant. Damn. That gave me a hemmoroid flash clear across the country. But Carl Nisrael's origins are a lot clearer now... Popeye Self improvement is masterbation. Self destruction is the answer. Tyler Durden > >Spam here, and you'll end up pregnant. > > Damn. > > That gave me a hemmoroid flash clear across the country. Thank you. We love to be appreciated. > But Carl Nisrael's origins are a lot clearer now... Hey? Who? Signature"I know we're going to die. There's three of us who are going to do something about it." -Tom Burnett, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > ? >Spam here, and you'll end up pregnant. > ? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Hey? Who? The new Village Idiot. You've not seen him. We in the Enlisted Ranks do Our duty, and shield Your Greatness from the buffoons. The Court Jester croaked, the Village Drunk caught the clap, and the would-be mayor lied about his medals. All You have left is Us Jarheads. And Our Patron Saint, John Moses Browning. > > ? >Spam here, and you'll end up pregnant. > > ? [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > And Our Patron Saint, John Moses Browning. Ah. Well, then. Carry the f.ck on. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 >From: "brad@The Deep End" REMOVEwebmaster@deepend.on.ca >Look guys. truce. No more spam from me (maybe the occasional plug), you guys >get off my back. Apologize doesn't start with a T. We'll briefly entertain the notion if we're in the mood. You're the trespasser here, and you keep trying to set terms. Bon chance. > (Remember, I am just doing my job). You're a professional spammer? I really dig the spam trap in yout address, BTW. That's good for an extra two points. > Im just appauled by the absolute rudeness Ive been subjected to. Fuckin -Rude-? sh.t in your hat and wear it. Popeye Self improvement is masterbation. Self destruction is the answer. Tyler Durden > >From: "brad@The Deep End" REMOVEwebmaster@deepend.on.ca > > >Look guys. truce. No more spam from me (maybe the occasional plug), you guys > >get off my back. > > Apologize doesn't start with a T. Did I say apologize? Nope. I said truce. > We'll briefly entertain the notion if we're in the mood. > > You're the trespasser here, and you keep trying to set terms. Aint tresspassing - you dont own this place. > Bon chance. > > > (Remember, I am just doing my job). > > You're a professional spammer? No. Just a dive shop employee. JUST LIKE YOU WERE (you know that part about someone telling your to do something so you earn your paycheck) > I really dig the spam trap in yout address, BTW. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > sh.t in your hat and wear it. This aint your board. Never was. Aint mine either. Guess your gonna learn to co-exist eh? If your answer is no (probably is "no"0 too bad. After seeing the certain errs in my way Im here to Actually help people with questions (when I can). Brad > > >From: "brad@The Deep End" REMOVEwebmaster@deepend.on.ca > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Did I say apologize? Nope. I said truce. people with class appologize when they intrude where they should not intrude. > > We'll briefly entertain the notion if we're in the mood. > > > > You're the trespasser here, and you keep trying to set terms. > > Aint tresspassing - you dont own this place. if you bring spam, you are trespassing. > > Bon chance. > > > > > (Remember, I am just doing my job). badly. > > You're a professional spammer? > > No. Just a dive shop employee. JUST LIKE YOU WERE (you know that part about > someone telling your to do something so you earn your paycheck) does your employee realize that your behavior reflects badly on his business? people associate your lack of class with his operation? > > I really dig the spam trap in yout address, BTW. > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Guess your gonna learn to co-exist eh? if co-exist means more spam from you, wrong. those of us who disapprove of your conduct can call 1-888-357-DIVE and tell them why. or even drop in and complain at The Deep End 130 King Street West Dundas, ON L9H 1V2 > Brad >From: "brad@The Deep End" REMOVEwebmaster@deepend.on.ca >> You're the trespasser here, and you keep trying to set terms. > >Aint tresspassing - you dont own this place. I don't have to own it for you to be tresspassing. >> You're a professional spammer? > >No. Just a dive shop employee. JUST LIKE YOU WERE (you know that part about >someone telling your to do something so you earn your paycheck) What a piss poor spineless excuse. >Guess your gonna learn to co-exist eh? >If your answer is no (probably is "no"0 too bad. After seeing the certain >errs in my way Im here to Actually help people with questions (when I can). Fine by me. You can start with apologizing for your slanderous slander accusation. Popeye Self improvement is masterbation. Self destruction is the answer. Tyler Durden > You can start with apologizing for your slanderous slander accusation ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Heheheh.... > >From: "brad@The Deep End" REMOVEwebmaster@deepend.on.ca > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > sh.t in your hat and wear it. and thus you win yet another "The Laugh of the Day Award" !! > Popeye > Self improvement is masterbation. Self > destruction is the answer. Tyler Durden > > > > ><snicker> > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Look guys. truce. No more spam from me (maybe the occasional plug), you guys > get off my back. (Remember, I am just doing my job). when you spam here, you are blacklisting your enployer. you are not doing your job right. do you know which dive shops web site I designed? right. > Brad > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > > - Trina Paulus > > Apparently he hasn't made it past "spamming" yet. > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Pardon? He said "Apparently he hasn't made it past "spamming" yet.". Signature"I know we're going to die. There's three of us who are going to do something about it." -Tom Burnett, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 I have no idea what "top posting" is. Brad > ? Hello Popeye, > ? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > BTW - do you know what "top posting" is and why it's frowned upon? >From: "brad@The Deep End" REMOVEwebmaster@deepend.on.ca >Date: 9/10/2004 6:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> >> BTW - do you know what "top posting" is and why it's frowned upon? And here I thought you were Mr Aroundtheblock. Try sounding it out, while coupled with accute visual inspection. Popeye Self improvement is masterbation. Self destruction is the answer. Tyler Durden > I have no idea what "top posting" is. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > > > BTW - do you know what "top posting" is and why it's frowned upon? Saw this (paraphrased) in someone's signature: Look at it this way: >Its bad because its out of the order most people read. >>Why is it bad? >>>Top posting is when you post your message above the message to which you're replying, and is >>>considered bad form >>>>What is top-posting? Dennis > > > BTW - do you know what "top posting" is and why it's frowned upon? > Saw this (paraphrased) in someone's signature: (-; That would have been my old sig... and it went just like this... A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet? Kimber SignatureI never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell. - Harry S. Truman (1884-1972) > > > > BTW - do you know what "top posting" is and why it's frowned upon? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Kimber Thank you. Found it in my notes. Evidently Alf P Steinbach of comp.lang.c++ used it as well. Dennis SignatureA: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? credit to Alf P. Steinbach, comp.lang.c++ use it. > I have no idea what "top posting" is. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > > > BTW - do you know what "top posting" is and why it's frowned upon? Top posting is hard to read. Only fools Signature"I know we're going to die. There's three of us who are going to do something about it." -Tom Burnett, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 Fools find top posting hard to read? How tragic for them. Jammer Six <jammer@invalid.oz.net> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :use it. : [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] : :Top posting is hard to read. Only fools Dan Bracuk Is it my imagination, or do Buffalo Wings taste like chicken? The Best of rec.scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/ > I have no idea what "top posting" is. http://www.cybernothing.org/cno/docs/rfc1855.html <snip> John >From: Alan Street agstreet@nonono_san.rr.com >Date: 9/10/2004 6:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >BTW - do you know what "top posting" is and why it's frowned upon? Someone start a list. Popeye Self improvement is masterbation. Self destruction is the answer. Tyler Durden > BTW - do you know what "top posting" is and why it's frowned upon? No, he doesn't. He learned about the internet from the same school that taught him about slander. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 >From: "brad@The Deep End" REMOVEwebmaster@deepend.on.ca >Date: 9/10/2004 6:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Can I continually expect your slanderous tone? Oh, absolutely. I have not yet -begun- to slander. Main Entry: [2]slander Function: noun Etymology: Middle English sclaundre, slaundre, from Old French esclandre, from Late Latin scandalum stumbling block, offense —more at SCANDAL Date: 14th century 1 : the utterance of false charges or misrepresentations which defame and damage another's reputation 2 : a false and defamatory oral statement about a person — Actually, I've been ridiculing you, and -you've- slandered -me-. By accusing me of slander. You're a spammer, which we do not appreciate. With a little more tact, you could get your message across within the acceptable and informal guidelines of our group. There are several dive shop and op owners and employees here that are valued contributors. Instructors from various agencies. But your witless spamming draws only ire. You should also keep in mind that the majority of us are experienced divers, and offering deals like a $1200 Sherwood package is like waiving a red f |
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