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Scuba Forum / General / September 2004

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im letting my daughter take scuba

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frederick boudreaux - 31 Aug 2004 04:51 GMT
lessons about how much money do they cost,? what kind of gear does she
need and any advice you could give me she is 15 years old and im worried
Doug Haskins - 31 Aug 2004 05:42 GMT
I can't say what it might cost in your area, but call a few dive shops and
they will be happy to tell you. As far as equipment goes, most courses
require that you purchase the personal gear (Mask, snorkel, flippers,
booties, gloves). A knife is optional, but a good idea.

Is your daughter fairly strong? The gear she will be wearing is a tad on the
heavy side. Especially if the dive involves any kind of walking up or down
hills/stairs to get to/from the water. The tank and weight belt especially.

The sport itself is reasonably safe provided she pays attention to the
details of the course and practices them religiously at first. Some women
take to it like fish. I guess it all depends on how much fear they have of
claustraphobia, drowning, darkness.. stuff like that.

I hope she has a good dive buddy? Maybe you should take the course with her?
hehe.. good luck convincing her of that one. ;-)

Yea, I would be very afraid if it was my daughter at 15 too. Put on a brave
face and have faith in her abilities.

Let us know how it goes.

> lessons about how much money do they cost,? what kind of gear does she
> need and any advice you could give me she is 15 years old and im worried
H. Huntzinger - 31 Aug 2004 12:49 GMT
> I can't say what it might cost in your area, but call a few dive shops and
> they will be happy to tell you. As far as equipment goes, most courses
> require that you purchase the personal gear (Mask, snorkel, flippers,
> booties, gloves). A knife is optional, but a good idea.

I'd swag it as $350 for the class, plus $150-$200 for mask/fins/snorkel,
plus the usual temptation to get gear right away, which these days will
probably be $1000 plus thermal protection (which varies from $150-2000,
depending on if you're going to dive dry because of where you live).

> Is your daughter fairly strong? The gear she will be wearing is a tad on the
> heavy side. Especially if the dive involves any kind of walking up or down
> hills/stairs to get to/from the water. The tank and weight belt especially.

Very roughly, the basic gear is going to weigh in at around 50lbs.  If
you're diving in coldwater, add another 25lbs to the weightbelt.

> The sport itself is reasonably safe provided she pays attention to the
> details of the course and practices them religiously at first.

I'd add to this "...and is already a very good swimmer".  Opinions vary
on how good of a swimmer someone really needs to be, but being a poor
swimmer is obviously not a good thing.  If her watermanship skills
aren't good enough such that neither you nor she are afraid of her going
out bodysurfing in the ocean on a day with "good" waves, then there's
room for improvement here.

> Some women
> take to it like fish. I guess it all depends on how much fear they have of
> claustraphobia, drowning, darkness.. stuff like that.

True.  A lot of diving is mental control due to changes in (mostly
visual) perceptions.

> I hope she has a good dive buddy? Maybe you should take the course with her?
> hehe.. good luck convincing her of that one. ;-)
>
> Yea, I would be very afraid if it was my daughter at 15 too. Put on a brave
> face and have faith in her abilities.

There are some people who won't teach kids under age 16, which is the
old minimum diving age.  As such, this is another question you can ask
of the businesses that you'll be shopping around in:  IMO, you want the
one that will want to meet your daughter before deciding, not the one
who says "sure, no problem!".

> Let us know how it goes.

Agreed...and let's also hope it goes well.

-hh
Jammer Six - 31 Aug 2004 07:24 GMT
> lessons about how much money do they cost,? what kind of gear does she
> need and any advice you could give me she is 15 years old and im worried

Is she pretty?

Signature

"We're going to rush the hijackers."
    -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001

Lee Bell - 31 Aug 2004 11:52 GMT
> ? lessons about how much money do they cost,? what kind of gear does she
> ? need and any advice you could give me she is 15 years old and im worried
> ?
>
> Is she pretty?

Fool.  All daughters are pretty to their fathers.
Grumman-581 - 01 Sep 2004 02:47 GMT
> Fool.  All daughters are pretty to their fathers.

Especially if they're from Arkansas? <evil-grin
Lee Bell - 01 Sep 2004 03:42 GMT
> > Fool.  All daughters are pretty to their fathers.
>
> Especially if they're from Arkansas? <evil-grin>

<grin
BllFs6 - 31 Aug 2004 15:23 GMT
>€ lessons about how much money do they cost,? what kind of gear does she
>€ need and any advice you could give me she is 15 years old and im worried
>€
>
>Is she pretty?

Calm down Jammer...

it is highly unlikely that she is into necropheilia :)

Blll

If it was my 15 yo daughter, I really worry about these things....

Is she prone to panic? If so, not good when it comes to scuba, because THATS
what will usually get you...

Is she mature for her age? Wiil she take safety and procedures SERIOUSLY ALL
the time? (of course there are 40 olds who dont pass this test)...

Is she (or could she become) extremely comfortable in the water? If not, it
might be a good idea to spend a good bit of time in the next year or so doing
alot of just ocean swimming and or free diving with mask, snorkel, fins, and
wetsuit/weightbelt...this also gets her used to that gear and being underwater
and not excessively consciously worrying about "breathing"
underwater)....getting used to gear and being underwater (which just aint the
normal human condition) goes a long way towards being calm/comfortable when
scuba diving...

She also needs to be extremely comfortable underwater WITHOUT a mask on, as
well as with one on....

Does she realize she herself can ACTUALLY get hurt/killed at that age? If she's
got that youngster immortality mindset thats not so good IMHO either....

just some random thoughts

take care

Blll
Dillon Pyron - 31 Aug 2004 16:04 GMT
>> lessons about how much money do they cost,? what kind of gear does she
>> need and any advice you could give me she is 15 years old and im worried
>
>Is she pretty?

Remember
"Fifteen will get you twenty
and thirteen will get you twelve, both barrels"

ah, the thread has morphed.

Signature

dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

Jammer Six - 31 Aug 2004 22:25 GMT
> ah, the thread has morphed.

Don't they all?

Signature

"We're going to rush the hijackers."
    -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001

Jammer Six - 31 Aug 2004 22:27 GMT
> ah, the thread has morphed.

We're impressed.

You morphed it into both sex and guns, in one short, magnificently
eloquent post.

See whoever's in charge of that court for mortals We used to run, and
have them put you in charge of something.

Signature

"I know we're going to die. There's three of us who are going to do something
about it."
    -Tom Burnett, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001

Whistler - 01 Sep 2004 07:57 GMT
> See whoever's in charge of that court for mortals We used to run, and
> have them put you in charge of something.

I think Seargent Major is swillin',
so for him I will quietly fill in.
For taking this thread,
straight at Dad and his dread,
I dub the Sir Twelve Gauge of Dillon!
Whistler - 01 Sep 2004 08:00 GMT
> € ah, the thread has morphed.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> See whoever's in charge of that court for mortals We used to run, and
> have them put you in charge of something.

I think Seargent Major is swillin',
so for him I will quietly fill in.
For taking this thread,
straight at Dad and his dread,
I dub Thee Sir Twelve Gauge of Dillon!
Dillon Pyron - 01 Sep 2004 17:15 GMT
>> > ah, the thread has morphed.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>straight at Dad and his dread,
>I dub Thee Sir Twelve Gauge of Dillon!

It's actually an 1100.  Going after doves this afternoon.
Signature

dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

Whistler - 01 Sep 2004 17:33 GMT
>>>€ ah, the thread has morphed.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> It's actually an 1100.  Going after doves this afternoon.

My ignorance seems to be showin'
while my knowledge of bores is agrowin'.
'Stead the gauge, ``Double Barrel''.
Does that cause any quarrel?
If so, I will keep the names flowin'.
Lee Bell - 31 Aug 2004 11:50 GMT
> lessons about how much money do they cost,? what kind of gear does she
> need and any advice you could give me she is 15 years old and im worried

The cost of scuba courses varies from one to the next, as does what you get
for your money.  Most courses require her to have her own snorkel, mask and
fins.  Get some help in picking them out.  Masks have to fit right and all
fins are not created equal.  Some courses alwo require her to own her own
weight belt.  The pocket type are more comfortable than the strap type.
Other equipment is often provided for the course.

The best advice I can offer is meet the instructor.  Generally speaking, all
certification agencies cover the same material.  While we all have
preferences, they are usually based on periferal issues.  I, for example,
don't like PADI's corporate attitude.  They put advertising and profit ahead
of all other considerations.  Their instructors, at least the good ones, put
teaching their students to be safe divers ahead of all else.  The right
instructor will take time to talk to you, will be enthusiastic about diving
and teaching and will not casually dismiss your conserns about your
daughter's safety.

My second best advice is take the course with her.  Diving is very special
and can be made infinetely more special by being shared between a parent and
child.  Make time to share your daughter's hobby.  You'll be glad you did.

Beware of statements that "diving is safe."  Diving is not safe.  It can be
done safely, but doing so requires a bit of attention to detail.  Take
diving seriously and it will reward you, and your daughter, with a livetime
of joy.  Take it too casually and that lifetime may be significantly
shortened.

Lee
nobody - 31 Aug 2004 12:27 GMT
> lessons about how much money do they cost,? what kind of gear does she
> need and any advice you could give me she is 15 years old and im worried

My daughter received her certification when she was 14. That was three
years ago. I taught her to swim only a year before that and although she
is not what I would call a strong swimmer, she's done very well with her
diving. Personally, we make it a point that she dives only with me as a
buddy until she's 18. Nobody knows her like I do. I make sure that we
dive conservatively and that she stays within her limits. She knows well
enough to do this anyway, but it makes me and my wife feel better. She
will undoubtedly learn the buddy system of diving, which all beginning
courses teach. She can find buddies at your local dive club, but you
might consider learning to dive with her ... a great family sport.

I wouldn't worry too much about the weight of her gear compared to her
size if she is small. Small lungs can do with smaller tanks. My daughter
prefers 72 cubic foot tanks which are small and reasonable to carry, and
she doesn't require much weight for buoyancy.

Now for the real tricky question. My daughter at fourteen was very
mature for her age. She took the course and sport seriously and has an
interest in medicine anyway, so she is cogniscent of the dangers. Some
15 year olds have the maturity of 8 year olds. Only you and the dive
instructor can assess your daughter's readiness for scuba diving. While
it is generally a safe sport when practiced correctly, there are
inherant risks. Email me off list if you have any other questions.
Actual eamil is oldscopeatnyc.rr.com - just substitute @ for "at".

Bart F.
NE333RO - 01 Sep 2004 01:47 GMT
>Now for the real tricky question. My daughter at fourteen was very
>mature for her age. She took the course and sport seriously and has an
>interest in medicine anyway, so she is cogniscent of the dangers. Some
>15 year olds have the maturity of 8 year olds. Only you and the dive
>instructor can assess your daughter's readiness for scuba diving.

   Read the above paragraph a number of times and forget the dive instructors
assessment of your daughters abilities, he has more factors motivating him that
your daughters safety.
   I was certified at 14 and was very mature for my age. I'd also been skin
diving since I was 5. My dad was a diver also, but unbeknownst to him, my first
two dives were cave dives. Take that for what it's worth.
chilly - 01 Sep 2004 02:38 GMT
> >Now for the real tricky question. My daughter at fourteen was very
> >mature for her age. She took the course and sport seriously and has an
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> diving since I was 5. My dad was a diver also, but unbeknownst to him, my first
> two dives were cave dives. Take that for what it's worth.

It is possible that the father doesn't realize the implications of "cave
diving" vs open water diving.
nospam@all.please.net - 01 Sep 2004 03:23 GMT
> I was certified at 14 and was very mature for my age.

> my first two dives were cave dives.

> Take that for what it's worth.

I will. It's a contradiction.
NE333RO - 01 Sep 2004 23:23 GMT
>> I was certified at 14 and was very mature for my age.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>I will. It's a contradiction.

   Not 30 years ago.
Popeye NCAT3 - 02 Sep 2004 23:24 GMT
>From: nospam@all.please.net
>Date: 8/31/2004 10:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>I will. It's a contradiction.

 Not for a Florida boy.
   
         
                                  Popeye
           "If one does as God does enough times, one
           will become as God is."  -Dr. Hannibal Lector.
nobody - 01 Sep 2004 20:33 GMT
>     I was certified at 14 and was very mature for my age. I'd also been skin
> diving since I was 5. My dad was a diver also, but unbeknownst to him, my first
> two dives were cave dives. Take that for what it's worth.

Read the above even more carefully. Right after you were certified, you
broke the rules and assuming that your father would never approve of you
 cave diving, you went behind his back to do it.

Interesting definition of maturity.

As to whether a parent should trust the judgement of an instructor
(read: paid, trained professional who has legal liability for your
daughter's safe education and a vested interest in seeing her dive
safely and safety in the sport in general.); who better to trust?

Ultimately it is the parents' responsibility to insure that the child is
mature enough and competent enough to dive safely, but lacking diving
knowledge, a discussion with the potential instructor seems like a good
start. There is not nearly the conflict of interest between the diver's
safety and the instructor's/dive shop's need to turn a buck which you
implied. Everyone suffers when a dive accident occurs and with today's
litigious society, shops and instructors would be cutting their own
throats to allow immature or incapable children to get certified. I
suspect that competent instructors would NOT want to train a kid who is
not emotionally ready.

Bart F.
NE333RO - 03 Sep 2004 03:44 GMT
>Read the above even more carefully. Right after you were certified, you
>broke the rules

   I broke no rules. 30 years ago cave diving was not generally considered
overly dangerous. At least among most certified divers. It's my understanding
that those doing alot of cave diving, thought it was dangerous, but that didn't
trickled down to the rest of us until years later.

and assuming that your father would never approve of you
>  cave diving, you went behind his back to do it.
>
>Interesting definition of maturity.

   He probably wouldn't have approved of me diving without him at all, though
it was never discussed. He was out of town those two weekends so I never had to
test the issue. Cave diving had nothing to do with it. My point was two-fold,
first off, a mature 14 year old, is an oxymoron. Pushing the boundrys is what
14 year olds do. Even mature ones.
  Second, a 14 year old with a c-card, is a certified diver. Theres nothing to
keep them from renting gear, getting tanks filled, and diving pretty much where
ever they want. Just something to keep in mind.

>As to whether a parent should trust the judgement of an instructor
>(read: paid, trained professional who has legal liability for your
>daughter's safe education and a vested interest in seeing her dive
>safely and safety in the sport in general.); who better to trust?

   The local prostitute? At least she's up front about screwing you.
Instructors are generally poorly paid, can easily be poorly trained, and their
job is in jeapardy if they can't fill classes and sell gear. I'd love to see
examples where an instructor has been successfully sued because of poor
training. I doubt that's a factor either.
   My instructor was so intent on his students' safety, he allowed us to do
our last check out dive by ourselves because his wife showed up unexpectedly,
caught him with his girlfriend, and had to smooth things over.

>Ultimately it is the parents' responsibility to insure that the child is
>mature enough and competent enough to dive safely,

Yep.

but lacking diving
>knowledge, a discussion with the potential instructor seems like a good
>start.

   As long as you take things with 3 grains of salt.

There is not nearly the conflict of interest between the diver's
>safety and the instructor's/dive shop's need to turn a buck which you
>implied.

   Yes there is. They are certifying 10 year olds these days. If thats not a
money grab at the expense of safety, I dont know what is.

Everyone suffers when a dive accident occurs and with today's
>litigious society, shops and instructors would be cutting their own
>throats to allow immature or incapable children to get certified. I
>suspect that competent instructors would NOT want to train a kid who is
>not emotionally ready.

   I suspect that competent instructors would not want to train a kid who is
not emotionally ready also. Let's hope he lucked into a competent one.
Dillon Pyron - 31 Aug 2004 16:12 GMT
>lessons about how much money do they cost,? what kind of gear does she
>need and any advice you could give me she is 15 years old and im worried

How much depends on where and who.  You can spend $99 on a course, but
I wouldn't.  You can spend $500 on a course, but again, I wouldn't.
Find out what the course really costs.  I've seen "cheap" courses that
didn't include little things like books and rental gear.  She'll need
a mask, fins (and booties in all likelyhood) and a snorkle.  This can
cost as little as $100, as much as $250 or more.  It depends on what
you decide to get.

Is she comfortable in the water?  Are you comfortable with her being
in the water without you?  How emotionally mature is she?  I
personally am uncomfortable with a 15 year old in one of my classes.
There is a certain level of maturity, self confidence and
responsibility required, and many 15 yo's don't have have it.  Of
course, there are many 40 year olds that don't meet that standard, but
society holds them responsible for their own actions.  A 15 year old
doesn't have the experience to judge entirely for themselves.

If you are worried, you should either try your best to hide it before
it infects her or wait another year.

Signature

dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

bullshark - 01 Sep 2004 10:31 GMT
>lessons about how much money do they cost,? what kind of gear does she
>need and any advice you could give me she is 15 years old and im worried

It's going to cost *thousands* of dollars. "lessons"? Ha. You might
as well just take your wallet out and hold it up to the wind.

What good are they if you don't go diving? Obviously you don't dive,
and haven't any idea. Everytime your little lamb wants to go diving,
it's going to cost you at *least* $100. Then there's going to be the
big moon-eyes when she wants that pretty wet-suit. She's just *gotta*
have bio-fins. Then she's going to look up all innocent-like and ask
you if it's true that you can get pregnant from using a rental
regulator. Whoops... a couple K is gone and she hasn't even gone
diving yet.

Instructors are another story. They are all but unregulated and
teaching qualifications are purchased, not earned. They don't even
require a high school diploma. Child molesters and rapists all.
Well, you're not in a position to know better, are you?

All this for a sport she is too young to appreciate anyway.
She won't like it. It frequently involves discomfort and hard work,
two things that teenagers cannot abide. If you're lucky, when she finds
out that there's no cellphones or text messaging underwater, she'll lose
interest in it before she hits you up for a waterproof IPod.  

If you don't dive, your daughter shouldn't learn. She'll die for
sure. Wait till she's 21 and has life insurance with you as beneficiary.
I don't think you're equipped to see to the safety and completeness
of her education, or to supervise her first forays into the most
unforgiving, dangerous environment she has ever encountered.

Did you hear about the diver last week that was attacked by a
Great White Shark? It bit his head clean of at the neck, and
swam away. Kuel!
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/08/18/shark.attack.ap/index.html

It's a phase dad.

Give her a couple hundred bucks and send her to the mall.
She'll get over it.

safe diving,

bullshark
 
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