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Scuba Forum / General / April 2005

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How Long do Those Tanks Last

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Albert von Hauer - 31 Aug 2004 01:10 GMT
Hello.  I don't dive, but I just saw Open Water and was curious about
something.  How long do those oxygen tanks you wear last underwater?

Thanks in advance.
nitespark - 31 Aug 2004 02:11 GMT
> Hello.  I don't dive, but I just saw Open Water and was curious about
> something.  How long do those oxygen tanks you wear last underwater?
>
> Thanks in advance.

Well, first off, they are not oxygen tanks.  Most contain air, just like
you breath on the surface.  There are some that have a higher Oxygen
content than normal surface air and others have a helium mixture but I
am straying away from your question.

There are lots of factors that affect how long a tank will last.  Depth,
 the size of the tank, and the diver him/herself.

The deeper a diver goes, the less time he/she has.  Tanks come in
various capacities so obviously an 80 cf tank at 100 ft is not going to
last as long as a 120 cf tank.

Finally, the diver.  Different people have different rates of breathing.
 Last month, I was diving off the coast of NC.  I had a 100 cf tank.
My buddy had a 95 cf tank.  When he signalled to go up, I still had over
half my air left.  We had a maximum depth of 72 ft and the entire dive
was for 30 minutes.

BTW, I havn't seen the movie but I havn't heard ONE good review from the
divers on rec.scuba.  You being a non-diver, I am curious what your
impression was???
NE333RO - 01 Sep 2004 01:32 GMT
>The deeper a diver goes, the less time he/she has.  Tanks come in
>various capacities so obviously an 80 cf tank at 100 ft is not going to
>last as long as a 120 cf tank.

   Wow 80 cf. My oil tank out back is only 60 cf. How do you carry that around
on your back?
Lee Bell - 01 Sep 2004 03:39 GMT
> >The deeper a diver goes, the less time he/she has.  Tanks come in
> >various capacities so obviously an 80 cf tank at 100 ft is not going to
> >last as long as a 120 cf tank.
>
>     Wow 80 cf. My oil tank out back is only 60 cf. How do you carry that around
> on your back?

We're divers.  We can do anything.
bullshark - 01 Sep 2004 10:45 GMT
>    Wow 80 cf. My oil tank out back is only 60 cf. How do you carry that around
>on your back?

It has something to do with a phone booth and how much air is inside it.

safe diving,

bullshark
Steve House - 01 Sep 2004 10:58 GMT
Your oil tank hold 60 cuft at an in-tank pressure of 1 atmosphere... it's
big.  The air in the scuba tank (Al80) will occupy 80 cuft when allowed to
expand to normal surface atmospheric pressure but in the tank it is
compressed to about 235 atm so the actual volume it occupies in the tank
under full pressure is 80/235 or about 0.3 cuft.

Steve House

> >The deeper a diver goes, the less time he/she has.  Tanks come in
> >various capacities so obviously an 80 cf tank at 100 ft is not going to
> >last as long as a 120 cf tank.
>
>     Wow 80 cf. My oil tank out back is only 60 cf. How do you carry that around
> on your back?
NE333RO - 02 Sep 2004 02:45 GMT
>Your oil tank hold 60 cuft at an in-tank pressure of 1 atmosphere... it's
>big.  The air in the scuba tank (Al80) will occupy 80 cuft when
<snip>

   I was making a point about the poster using words such as "obviously" when
explaining air consumption to a non diver, using our basterdized version of
"volume".
Albert von Hauer - 01 Sep 2004 03:03 GMT
> > Hello.  I don't dive, but I just saw Open Water and was curious about
> > something.  How long do those oxygen tanks you wear last underwater?
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> divers on rec.scuba.  You being a non-diver, I am curious what your
> impression was???

I thought it was very realistic.  Especially the part about the sharks.
Albert von Hauer - 01 Sep 2004 03:47 GMT
> Finally, the diver.  Different people have different rates of breathing.
>   Last month, I was diving off the coast of NC.  I had a 100 cf tank.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> divers on rec.scuba.  You being a non-diver, I am curious what your
> impression was???

It was great.  Very realistic.  Especially the part about the sharks.
Grumman-581 - 31 Aug 2004 02:59 GMT
> Hello.  I don't dive, but I just saw Open Water and was curious about
> something.  How long do those oxygen tanks you wear last underwater?

Actually, they are usually just filled with air instead of O2...

I have some from around 1970 and they're still good...
Lee Bell - 31 Aug 2004 03:03 GMT
> Hello.  I don't dive, but I just saw Open Water and was curious about
> something.  How long do those oxygen tanks you wear last underwater?
> Thanks in advance.

First, what you normally see are not oxygen tanks.  Most contain compressed
air.

How long they last depends on the size of the tank (they come in a wide
range of sizes), the pressure of the gas in the tank (there are several
common working pressures), the depth at which the tanks is being used (the
deeper you go, the more the gas you breathe is compressed and the more you
use) and the diver's respiration rate (some use gas faster than others).

In general, a standard tank will last the average diver, something more than
one hour and less than two at about 33 feet.  It lasts only half as long at
99 feet as it does at 33.

Lee
Von Fourche - 31 Aug 2004 03:15 GMT
> In general, a standard tank will last the average diver, something more than
> one hour and less than two at about 33 feet.  It lasts only half as long at
> 99 feet as it does at 33.

   Is that a 3000psi or 4000 psi tank?
Dillon Pyron - 31 Aug 2004 16:00 GMT
>> In general, a standard tank will last the average diver, something more
>than
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>    Is that a 3000psi or 4000 psi tank?

It's more a question of volume.  A spare air is at 3000 psi.  But a
steel 72 filled at 2500 psi is still good for longer.

Signature

dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

TonyH - 01 Sep 2004 11:34 GMT
Good grief,

If you all started using the far simpler metric sizing it would be obvious
how much gas you are carrying!

A standard 12 litre cylinder pumped to 232 bar has 12 x 323 litres of air.
A normal (relaxed and reasonably fit) diver consumes about 15 litres per
minute at the surface (1 bar absolute) so this cylinder will last
12x232/15 minutes =185.6, obviously this depends on the divers state and
level of fitness and we should remove the 50 bar (750psi) reserve from the
calculation therefore this then becomes 12*(232-50)/15=145.6 minutes at
ambient pressure.

At 10m (33ft) = 2 bar the consumption rate is doubled.

> >> In general, a standard tank will last the average diver, something more
> >than
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> It's more a question of volume.  A spare air is at 3000 psi.  But a
> steel 72 filled at 2500 psi is still good for longer.
Chris - 01 Sep 2004 13:50 GMT
> If you all started using the far simpler metric sizing it would be obvious
> how much gas you are carrying!

You mean I need metric to know there is more gas in a 104cf then an 80cf?
Dillon Pyron - 01 Sep 2004 17:13 GMT
>Good grief,
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>At 10m (33ft) = 2 bar the consumption rate is doubled.

Tony, are those metric minutes?

I agree that it's easier, but we're still stuck in the mid 1800s and I
doubt we'll ever change.

There was a guy in rec.aviation.homebuilt who was complaining because
his plans were in metric and he didn't want to be converting back and
forth all the time and introducing errors.  Several people told him to
buy metric measureing equipment and just work with that.  His
solutions was to sell the plans and buy something he "could work
with".

>> >> In general, a standard tank will last the average diver, something more
>> >than
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>> It's more a question of volume.  A spare air is at 3000 psi.  But a
>> steel 72 filled at 2500 psi is still good for longer.

Signature

dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

Lee Bell - 01 Sep 2004 20:02 GMT
> >At 10m (33ft) = 2 bar the consumption rate is doubled.
>
> Tony, are those metric minutes?
>
> I agree that it's easier, but we're still stuck in the mid 1800s and I
> doubt we'll ever change.

You don't know whether meters and bar are metric, but you're sure it's
easier?  Please!

At 232 bar, a 12 liter metric tank holds 12x232 liters of gas or 2,784
liters.  An average consumption rate of 15 liters a minute allows the diver
to breath the tank for 2,784/15 or 186 minutes at the surface.

At it's rated pressure, whatever that might be, a 100 cubic foot tank hold
100 cubic feet of gas.  An average consumption rate of .5 cubic feet per
minute, allows the diver to breathe the tank for 100/.5 or 200 minutes.

You want to resonsider which is easier?

Lee
Lee Bell - 01 Sep 2004 19:55 GMT
> If you all started using the far simpler metric sizing it would be obvious
> how much gas you are carrying!

> A standard 12 litre cylinder pumped to 232 bar has 12 x 323 litres of air.

Ummm, guess it's not so simple after all.  You got it wrong.  A standard 100
cubic foot tank, pumpted to its standard pressure, contains 100 cubic feet
of gas.  Kind of hard to mess up the calculation.

> A normal (relaxed and reasonably fit) diver consumes about 15 litres per
> minute at the surface (1 bar absolute) so this cylinder will last
> 12x232/15 minutes =185.6, obviously this depends on the divers state and
> level of fitness and we should remove the 50 bar (750psi) reserve from the
> calculation therefore this then becomes 12*(232-50)/15=145.6 minutes at
> ambient pressure.

A normal diver (assumes that there really is such a thing as a normal diver)
consumes about .5 cubic feet per minute.  A 100 cubic foot tank will last
200 minutes at the surface.

> At 10m (33ft) = 2 bar the consumption rate is doubled.

> Don't mix your units.  You confuse me.  At 33 feet, my consumption is
doubled too.

Lee
Joe English - 31 Aug 2004 03:53 GMT
> Hello.  I don't dive, but I just saw Open Water and was curious about
> something.  How long do those oxygen tanks you wear last underwater?
>
> Thanks in advance.

There not oxygen but hpeofully they last as long as your dive.

I have had an aluminum one for 13 - 14 years
Jon C - 31 Aug 2004 04:10 GMT
> Hello.  I don't dive, but I just saw Open Water and was curious about
> something.  How long do those oxygen tanks you wear last underwater?
>
> Thanks in advance.

Lee Bell nailed it.

Here's the info you need:

A typical tank contains 80 cubic feet of air compressed to 3000 psi, so
they're not oxygen tanks.

That will typically last a diver between 30 and 60 minutes of good dive
time before you have to surface - and you never breathe all the air in
the tank, instead keeping some for an emergency underwater.
Alan Street - 31 Aug 2004 05:36 GMT
> Hello.  I don't dive, but I just saw Open Water and was curious about
> something.  How long do those oxygen tanks you wear last underwater?
>
> Thanks in advance.

About an hour (+/- four sigma).
Albert von Hauer - 02 Sep 2004 02:25 GMT
Alan Street <agstreet@nonono_san.rr.com> wrote

> About an hour (+/- four sigma).

About vun hour.  Vunderbar.  

Vas dis los sigma?
Alan Street - 02 Sep 2004 03:49 GMT
> Alan Street <agstreet@nonono_san.rr.com> wrote
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Vas dis los sigma?

Statistical variation. Ask ReefFish to explain.
suziemo - 04 Sep 2004 02:11 GMT
> ? Alan Street <agstreet@nonono_san.rr.com> wrote
> ? >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Statistical variation. Ask ReefFish to explain.

The air in the tank will last according to the person using the tank.
For instance, I'm a female diver about 5'4" and I use a 63cf tank, one
of my buddies is a male about 6'2" and uses an 80cf tank.  When we
both decend at 33 feet at 3,000psi in our tank, he'll use his air up
in 30 minutes, where I would come up with 1,500psi left in my tank.  I
typically use my 3,000psi tank in about 45 minutes to an hour.

If I had an 80cf tank,  I would imagine, I could get at least 30 more
minutes out of it than I do with a smaller tank.

Just my 2 cents.  :)
Scott - 04 Sep 2004 02:40 GMT
> The air in the tank will last according to the person using the tank.
> For instance, I'm a female diver about 5'4" and I use a 63cf tank, one
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Just my 2 cents.  :)

3-4.5.2 Respiratory Rate. The number of complete respiratory cycles that
take place in 1
minute is the respiratory rate. An adult at rest normally has a respiratory
rate of
approximately 12 to 16 breaths per minute.

3-4.5.3 Total Lung Capacity. The total lung capacity (TLC) is the total
volume of air that
the lungs can hold when filled to capacity. TLC is normally between five and
six
liters.

3-4.5.4 Vital Capacity. Vital capacity is the volume of air that can be
expelled from the
lungs after a full inspiration. The average vital capacity is between four
and five
liters.

3-4.5.5 Tidal Volume. Tidal volume is the volume of air moved in or out of
the lungs
during a single normal respiratory cycle. The tidal volume generally
averages
about one-half liter for an adult at rest. Tidal volume increases
considerably during
physical exertion, and cannot exceed the vital capacity.

3-4.5.6 Respiratory Minute Volume. The respiratory minute volume (RMV) is
the total
amount of air moved in or out of the lungs in a minute. The respiratory
minute
volume is calculated by multiplying the tidal volume by the rate. RMV varies
greatly with the body's activity. It is about 6 to 10 liters per minute at
complete
rest and may be over 100 liters per minute during severe work.

3-4.5.7 Maximal Breathing Capacity and Maximum Ventilatory Volume. The
maximal
breathing capacity (MBC) and maximum ventilatory volume (MVV) are the
greatest respiratory minute volumes that a person can produce during a short
period of extremely forceful breathing. In a healthy young man, they may
average
as much as 180 liters per minute (the range is 140 to 240 liters per
minute).

3-4.5.8 Maximum Inspiratory Flow Rate and Maximum Expiratory Flow Rate. The
maximum
inspiratory flow rate (MIFR) and maximum expiratory flow rate (MEFR)
are the fastest rates at which the body can move gases in and out of the
lungs.
These rates are important in designing breathing equipment and computing gas
use under various workloads. Flow rates are usually expressed in liters per
second.

3-4.5.9 Respiratory Quotient. Respiratory quotient (RQ) is the ratio of the
amount of
carbon dioxide produced to the amount of oxygen consumed during cellular
processes per unit time. This value ranges from 0.7 to 1.0 depending on diet
and
physical exertion and is usually assumed to be 0.9 for calculations. This
ratio is
significant when calculating the amount of carbon dioxide produced as oxygen
is
used at various workloads while using a closed-circuit breathing apparatus.
The
duration of the carbon dioxide absorbent canister can then be compared to
the
duration of the oxygen supply.

3-4.5.10 Respiratory Dead Space. Respiratory dead space refers to the part
of the respiratory
system that has no alveoli, and in which little or no exchange of gas
between
air and blood takes place. It normally amounts to less than 0.2 liter. Air
occupying
the dead space at the end of expiration is rebreathed in the following
inspiration.
Parts of a diver's breathing apparatus can add to the volume of the dead
space and
thus reduce the proportion of the tidal volume that serves the purpose of
respiration.
To compensate, the diver must increase his tidal volume. The problem can
best be visualized by using a breathing tube as an example. If the tube
contains one
liter of air, a normal exhalation of about one liter will leave the tube
filled with
used air from the lungs. At inhalation, the used air will be drawn right
back into
the lungs. The tidal volume must be increased by more than a liter to draw
in the
needed fresh supply, because any fresh air is diluted by the air in the dead
space.
Thus, the air that is taken into the lungs (inspired air) is a mixture of
fresh and
dead space gases.

3-4.6 Alveolar/Capillary Gas Exchange. Within the alveolar air spaces, the
composition
of the air (alveolar air) is changed by the elimination of carbon dioxide
from
the blood, the absorption of oxygen by the blood, and the addition of water
vapor.
The air that is exhaled is a mixture of alveolar air and the inspired air
that
remained in the dead space.

The blood in the capillary bed of the lungs is exposed to the gas pressures
of alveolar
air through the thin membranes of the air sacs and the capillary walls. With
this exposure taking place over a vast surface area, the gas pressure of the
blood
leaving the lungs is approximately equal to that present in alveolar air.
When arterial blood passes through the capillary network surrounding the
cells in
the body tissues it is exposed to and equalizes with the gas pressure of the
tissues.
gudmundur - 04 Sep 2004 03:27 GMT
>> ? Alan Street <agstreet@nonono_san.rr.com> wrote
>> ? >
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
>Just my 2 cents.  :)

In U.S. measure I am 6ft male, 145lbs, and in excellent health do to
physical exertion of my job. I find on a slow swim in the local quarry,
following one of the sunken roads at 25ft of depth, and doing nothing
more than observing fish swim by, I get about 1.75 hours from 80cuft,
starting at 3000, and ending with 500psi. Total distance covered
horizontally underwater is about .4 mile.
jim frei - 31 Aug 2004 19:38 GMT
> Hello.  I don't dive, but I just saw Open Water and was curious about
> something.  How long do those oxygen tanks you wear last underwater?
>
> Thanks in advance.

a steel tank will last several hundred years - at least.  an aluminum tank
will corrode away in less time, but still last at least a hundred years.
Chris - 01 Sep 2004 13:51 GMT
"jim frei" <jdfrei@zxearthlink.zxnet> wrote in message news:%A3Zc.3894
> a steel tank will last several hundred years - at least.  an aluminum tank
> will corrode away in less time, but still last at least a hundred years.

And yet the net denizens think they are unsafe after 10 years...
howie1a - 29 Apr 2005 00:16 GMT
Most tanks have the same air you breath not o2 and the time they last
underwater is baised upon the breathing consumation of the diver some
divers are very good on not using much air my daugther will come up on
most of her dives with half of her air left when most orther divers on
the boat need to be back on the boat but she has been swimming since
she was a child , also she was in water balley and on swim team while
in school makes a difference . Their are different size tanks some hold
more cu. ft. of air than orthers you breath cu. ft. of air not pounds
per square ft. As far as the weight a 80 cu. ft. aluminum tank weight's
aprox. 40 lbs. and flotes when empty. Steel tanks are lighter and don,t
flote when empty . The reason is steel tanks are thinner than aluminum
but displace less water than aluminun . Howie

Signature

howie1a

Douglas W. \ - 29 Apr 2005 00:47 GMT
> Most tanks have the same air you breath not o2 and the time they last
> underwater is baised upon the breathing consumation of the diver some
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> flote when empty . The reason is steel tanks are thinner than aluminum
> but displace less water than aluminun . Howie

 This is an English language newsgroup.

--
If Ward Churchill can be a college professor, what's David Duke waiting
for? - Coulter
Adam Helberg - 29 Apr 2005 21:23 GMT
> Most tanks have the same air you breath not o2 and the time they last
> underwater is baised upon the breathing consumation of the diver some
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> flote when empty . The reason is steel tanks are thinner than aluminum
> but displace less water than aluminun . Howie

So you have superior daughters. My cats could last even longer on a tank of air, but
they hate water.

Adam
howie1a - 29 Apr 2005 00:32 GMT
On a fosil shark tooth dive in Venice Fl. with  depth at approx 16 ft.
1/4 mile off the beach . My 2 daugthers with 80 cu. ft. tanks get about
2 1/2 to 3 hrs. of bottom time on theise tanks but I a 6 ft. 185 lb.
male can only get 2 +hrs. females have smaller bodies and most of the
time are much better on air ( longer dives ) than men. We use the same
size tanks. Also you might like to know that most divers carry a 40 lb.
tank and 12 lbs, of weights to be able to sink if wearing a wet suit 3
mill. thick you can add 4 more lb. to offset the bouance of the wet
suit.

Signature

howie1a


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