Scuba Forum / General / April 2005
How Long do Those Tanks Last
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Albert von Hauer - 31 Aug 2004 01:10 GMT Hello. I don't dive, but I just saw Open Water and was curious about something. How long do those oxygen tanks you wear last underwater?
Thanks in advance.
nitespark - 31 Aug 2004 02:11 GMT > Hello. I don't dive, but I just saw Open Water and was curious about > something. How long do those oxygen tanks you wear last underwater? > > Thanks in advance. Well, first off, they are not oxygen tanks. Most contain air, just like you breath on the surface. There are some that have a higher Oxygen content than normal surface air and others have a helium mixture but I am straying away from your question.
There are lots of factors that affect how long a tank will last. Depth, the size of the tank, and the diver him/herself.
The deeper a diver goes, the less time he/she has. Tanks come in various capacities so obviously an 80 cf tank at 100 ft is not going to last as long as a 120 cf tank.
Finally, the diver. Different people have different rates of breathing. Last month, I was diving off the coast of NC. I had a 100 cf tank. My buddy had a 95 cf tank. When he signalled to go up, I still had over half my air left. We had a maximum depth of 72 ft and the entire dive was for 30 minutes.
BTW, I havn't seen the movie but I havn't heard ONE good review from the divers on rec.scuba. You being a non-diver, I am curious what your impression was???
NE333RO - 01 Sep 2004 01:32 GMT >The deeper a diver goes, the less time he/she has. Tanks come in >various capacities so obviously an 80 cf tank at 100 ft is not going to >last as long as a 120 cf tank. Wow 80 cf. My oil tank out back is only 60 cf. How do you carry that around on your back?
Lee Bell - 01 Sep 2004 03:39 GMT > >The deeper a diver goes, the less time he/she has. Tanks come in > >various capacities so obviously an 80 cf tank at 100 ft is not going to > >last as long as a 120 cf tank. > > Wow 80 cf. My oil tank out back is only 60 cf. How do you carry that around > on your back? We're divers. We can do anything.
bullshark - 01 Sep 2004 10:45 GMT > Wow 80 cf. My oil tank out back is only 60 cf. How do you carry that around >on your back? It has something to do with a phone booth and how much air is inside it.
safe diving,
bullshark
Steve House - 01 Sep 2004 10:58 GMT Your oil tank hold 60 cuft at an in-tank pressure of 1 atmosphere... it's big. The air in the scuba tank (Al80) will occupy 80 cuft when allowed to expand to normal surface atmospheric pressure but in the tank it is compressed to about 235 atm so the actual volume it occupies in the tank under full pressure is 80/235 or about 0.3 cuft.
Steve House
> >The deeper a diver goes, the less time he/she has. Tanks come in > >various capacities so obviously an 80 cf tank at 100 ft is not going to > >last as long as a 120 cf tank. > > Wow 80 cf. My oil tank out back is only 60 cf. How do you carry that around > on your back? NE333RO - 02 Sep 2004 02:45 GMT >Your oil tank hold 60 cuft at an in-tank pressure of 1 atmosphere... it's >big. The air in the scuba tank (Al80) will occupy 80 cuft when <snip>
I was making a point about the poster using words such as "obviously" when explaining air consumption to a non diver, using our basterdized version of "volume".
Albert von Hauer - 01 Sep 2004 03:03 GMT > > Hello. I don't dive, but I just saw Open Water and was curious about > > something. How long do those oxygen tanks you wear last underwater? [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > divers on rec.scuba. You being a non-diver, I am curious what your > impression was??? I thought it was very realistic. Especially the part about the sharks.
Albert von Hauer - 01 Sep 2004 03:47 GMT > Finally, the diver. Different people have different rates of breathing. > Last month, I was diving off the coast of NC. I had a 100 cf tank. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > divers on rec.scuba. You being a non-diver, I am curious what your > impression was??? It was great. Very realistic. Especially the part about the sharks.
Grumman-581 - 31 Aug 2004 02:59 GMT > Hello. I don't dive, but I just saw Open Water and was curious about > something. How long do those oxygen tanks you wear last underwater? Actually, they are usually just filled with air instead of O2...
I have some from around 1970 and they're still good...
Lee Bell - 31 Aug 2004 03:03 GMT > Hello. I don't dive, but I just saw Open Water and was curious about > something. How long do those oxygen tanks you wear last underwater? > Thanks in advance. First, what you normally see are not oxygen tanks. Most contain compressed air.
How long they last depends on the size of the tank (they come in a wide range of sizes), the pressure of the gas in the tank (there are several common working pressures), the depth at which the tanks is being used (the deeper you go, the more the gas you breathe is compressed and the more you use) and the diver's respiration rate (some use gas faster than others).
In general, a standard tank will last the average diver, something more than one hour and less than two at about 33 feet. It lasts only half as long at 99 feet as it does at 33.
Lee
Von Fourche - 31 Aug 2004 03:15 GMT > In general, a standard tank will last the average diver, something more than > one hour and less than two at about 33 feet. It lasts only half as long at > 99 feet as it does at 33. Is that a 3000psi or 4000 psi tank?
Dillon Pyron - 31 Aug 2004 16:00 GMT >> In general, a standard tank will last the average diver, something more >than [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Is that a 3000psi or 4000 psi tank? It's more a question of volume. A spare air is at 3000 psi. But a steel 72 filled at 2500 psi is still good for longer.
 Signature dillon
When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark and the horse's name was Bob.
TonyH - 01 Sep 2004 11:34 GMT Good grief,
If you all started using the far simpler metric sizing it would be obvious how much gas you are carrying!
A standard 12 litre cylinder pumped to 232 bar has 12 x 323 litres of air. A normal (relaxed and reasonably fit) diver consumes about 15 litres per minute at the surface (1 bar absolute) so this cylinder will last 12x232/15 minutes =185.6, obviously this depends on the divers state and level of fitness and we should remove the 50 bar (750psi) reserve from the calculation therefore this then becomes 12*(232-50)/15=145.6 minutes at ambient pressure.
At 10m (33ft) = 2 bar the consumption rate is doubled.
> >> In general, a standard tank will last the average diver, something more > >than [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > It's more a question of volume. A spare air is at 3000 psi. But a > steel 72 filled at 2500 psi is still good for longer. Chris - 01 Sep 2004 13:50 GMT > If you all started using the far simpler metric sizing it would be obvious > how much gas you are carrying! You mean I need metric to know there is more gas in a 104cf then an 80cf?
Dillon Pyron - 01 Sep 2004 17:13 GMT >Good grief, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >At 10m (33ft) = 2 bar the consumption rate is doubled. Tony, are those metric minutes?
I agree that it's easier, but we're still stuck in the mid 1800s and I doubt we'll ever change.
There was a guy in rec.aviation.homebuilt who was complaining because his plans were in metric and he didn't want to be converting back and forth all the time and introducing errors. Several people told him to buy metric measureing equipment and just work with that. His solutions was to sell the plans and buy something he "could work with".
>> >> In general, a standard tank will last the average diver, something more >> >than [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> It's more a question of volume. A spare air is at 3000 psi. But a >> steel 72 filled at 2500 psi is still good for longer.
 Signature dillon
When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark and the horse's name was Bob.
Lee Bell - 01 Sep 2004 20:02 GMT > >At 10m (33ft) = 2 bar the consumption rate is doubled. > > Tony, are those metric minutes? > > I agree that it's easier, but we're still stuck in the mid 1800s and I > doubt we'll ever change. You don't know whether meters and bar are metric, but you're sure it's easier? Please!
At 232 bar, a 12 liter metric tank holds 12x232 liters of gas or 2,784 liters. An average consumption rate of 15 liters a minute allows the diver to breath the tank for 2,784/15 or 186 minutes at the surface.
At it's rated pressure, whatever that might be, a 100 cubic foot tank hold 100 cubic feet of gas. An average consumption rate of .5 cubic feet per minute, allows the diver to breathe the tank for 100/.5 or 200 minutes.
You want to resonsider which is easier?
Lee
Lee Bell - 01 Sep 2004 19:55 GMT > If you all started using the far simpler metric sizing it would be obvious > how much gas you are carrying!
> A standard 12 litre cylinder pumped to 232 bar has 12 x 323 litres of air. Ummm, guess it's not so simple after all. You got it wrong. A standard 100 cubic foot tank, pumpted to its standard pressure, contains 100 cubic feet of gas. Kind of hard to mess up the calculation.
> A normal (relaxed and reasonably fit) diver consumes about 15 litres per > minute at the surface (1 bar absolute) so this cylinder will last > 12x232/15 minutes =185.6, obviously this depends on the divers state and > level of fitness and we should remove the 50 bar (750psi) reserve from the > calculation therefore this then becomes 12*(232-50)/15=145.6 minutes at > ambient pressure. A normal diver (assumes that there really is such a thing as a normal diver) consumes about .5 cubic feet per minute. A 100 cubic foot tank will last 200 minutes at the surface.
> At 10m (33ft) = 2 bar the consumption rate is doubled.
> Don't mix your units. You confuse me. At 33 feet, my consumption is doubled too.
Lee
Joe English - 31 Aug 2004 03:53 GMT > Hello. I don't dive, but I just saw Open Water and was curious about > something. How long do those oxygen tanks you wear last underwater? > > Thanks in advance. There not oxygen but hpeofully they last as long as your dive.
I have had an aluminum one for 13 - 14 years
Jon C - 31 Aug 2004 04:10 GMT > Hello. I don't dive, but I just saw Open Water and was curious about > something. How long do those oxygen tanks you wear last underwater? > > Thanks in advance. Lee Bell nailed it.
Here's the info you need:
A typical tank contains 80 cubic feet of air compressed to 3000 psi, so they're not oxygen tanks.
That will typically last a diver between 30 and 60 minutes of good dive time before you have to surface - and you never breathe all the air in the tank, instead keeping some for an emergency underwater.
Alan Street - 31 Aug 2004 05:36 GMT > Hello. I don't dive, but I just saw Open Water and was curious about > something. How long do those oxygen tanks you wear last underwater? > > Thanks in advance. About an hour (+/- four sigma).
Albert von Hauer - 02 Sep 2004 02:25 GMT Alan Street <agstreet@nonono_san.rr.com> wrote
> About an hour (+/- four sigma). About vun hour. Vunderbar.
Vas dis los sigma?
Alan Street - 02 Sep 2004 03:49 GMT > Alan Street <agstreet@nonono_san.rr.com> wrote > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Vas dis los sigma? Statistical variation. Ask ReefFish to explain.
suziemo - 04 Sep 2004 02:11 GMT > ? Alan Street <agstreet@nonono_san.rr.com> wrote > ? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Statistical variation. Ask ReefFish to explain. The air in the tank will last according to the person using the tank. For instance, I'm a female diver about 5'4" and I use a 63cf tank, one of my buddies is a male about 6'2" and uses an 80cf tank. When we both decend at 33 feet at 3,000psi in our tank, he'll use his air up in 30 minutes, where I would come up with 1,500psi left in my tank. I typically use my 3,000psi tank in about 45 minutes to an hour.
If I had an 80cf tank, I would imagine, I could get at least 30 more minutes out of it than I do with a smaller tank.
Just my 2 cents. :)
Scott - 04 Sep 2004 02:40 GMT > The air in the tank will last according to the person using the tank. > For instance, I'm a female diver about 5'4" and I use a 63cf tank, one [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Just my 2 cents. :) 3-4.5.2 Respiratory Rate. The number of complete respiratory cycles that take place in 1 minute is the respiratory rate. An adult at rest normally has a respiratory rate of approximately 12 to 16 breaths per minute.
3-4.5.3 Total Lung Capacity. The total lung capacity (TLC) is the total volume of air that the lungs can hold when filled to capacity. TLC is normally between five and six liters.
3-4.5.4 Vital Capacity. Vital capacity is the volume of air that can be expelled from the lungs after a full inspiration. The average vital capacity is between four and five liters.
3-4.5.5 Tidal Volume. Tidal volume is the volume of air moved in or out of the lungs during a single normal respiratory cycle. The tidal volume generally averages about one-half liter for an adult at rest. Tidal volume increases considerably during physical exertion, and cannot exceed the vital capacity.
3-4.5.6 Respiratory Minute Volume. The respiratory minute volume (RMV) is the total amount of air moved in or out of the lungs in a minute. The respiratory minute volume is calculated by multiplying the tidal volume by the rate. RMV varies greatly with the body's activity. It is about 6 to 10 liters per minute at complete rest and may be over 100 liters per minute during severe work.
3-4.5.7 Maximal Breathing Capacity and Maximum Ventilatory Volume. The maximal breathing capacity (MBC) and maximum ventilatory volume (MVV) are the greatest respiratory minute volumes that a person can produce during a short period of extremely forceful breathing. In a healthy young man, they may average as much as 180 liters per minute (the range is 140 to 240 liters per minute).
3-4.5.8 Maximum Inspiratory Flow Rate and Maximum Expiratory Flow Rate. The maximum inspiratory flow rate (MIFR) and maximum expiratory flow rate (MEFR) are the fastest rates at which the body can move gases in and out of the lungs. These rates are important in designing breathing equipment and computing gas use under various workloads. Flow rates are usually expressed in liters per second.
3-4.5.9 Respiratory Quotient. Respiratory quotient (RQ) is the ratio of the amount of carbon dioxide produced to the amount of oxygen consumed during cellular processes per unit time. This value ranges from 0.7 to 1.0 depending on diet and physical exertion and is usually assumed to be 0.9 for calculations. This ratio is significant when calculating the amount of carbon dioxide produced as oxygen is used at various workloads while using a closed-circuit breathing apparatus. The duration of the carbon dioxide absorbent canister can then be compared to the duration of the oxygen supply.
3-4.5.10 Respiratory Dead Space. Respiratory dead space refers to the part of the respiratory system that has no alveoli, and in which little or no exchange of gas between air and blood takes place. It normally amounts to less than 0.2 liter. Air occupying the dead space at the end of expiration is rebreathed in the following inspiration. Parts of a diver's breathing apparatus can add to the volume of the dead space and thus reduce the proportion of the tidal volume that serves the purpose of respiration. To compensate, the diver must increase his tidal volume. The problem can best be visualized by using a breathing tube as an example. If the tube contains one liter of air, a normal exhalation of about one liter will leave the tube filled with used air from the lungs. At inhalation, the used air will be drawn right back into the lungs. The tidal volume must be increased by more than a liter to draw in the needed fresh supply, because any fresh air is diluted by the air in the dead space. Thus, the air that is taken into the lungs (inspired air) is a mixture of fresh and dead space gases.
3-4.6 Alveolar/Capillary Gas Exchange. Within the alveolar air spaces, the composition of the air (alveolar air) is changed by the elimination of carbon dioxide from the blood, the absorption of oxygen by the blood, and the addition of water vapor. The air that is exhaled is a mixture of alveolar air and the inspired air that remained in the dead space.
The blood in the capillary bed of the lungs is exposed to the gas pressures of alveolar air through the thin membranes of the air sacs and the capillary walls. With this exposure taking place over a vast surface area, the gas pressure of the blood leaving the lungs is approximately equal to that present in alveolar air. When arterial blood passes through the capillary network surrounding the cells in the body tissues it is exposed to and equalizes with the gas pressure of the tissues.
gudmundur - 04 Sep 2004 03:27 GMT >> ? Alan Street <agstreet@nonono_san.rr.com> wrote >> ? > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Just my 2 cents. :) In U.S. measure I am 6ft male, 145lbs, and in excellent health do to physical exertion of my job. I find on a slow swim in the local quarry, following one of the sunken roads at 25ft of depth, and doing nothing more than observing fish swim by, I get about 1.75 hours from 80cuft, starting at 3000, and ending with 500psi. Total distance covered horizontally underwater is about .4 mile.
jim frei - 31 Aug 2004 19:38 GMT > Hello. I don't dive, but I just saw Open Water and was curious about > something. How long do those oxygen tanks you wear last underwater? > > Thanks in advance. a steel tank will last several hundred years - at least. an aluminum tank will corrode away in less time, but still last at least a hundred years.
Chris - 01 Sep 2004 13:51 GMT "jim frei" <jdfrei@zxearthlink.zxnet> wrote in message news:%A3Zc.3894
> a steel tank will last several hundred years - at least. an aluminum tank > will corrode away in less time, but still last at least a hundred years. And yet the net denizens think they are unsafe after 10 years...
howie1a - 29 Apr 2005 00:16 GMT Most tanks have the same air you breath not o2 and the time they last underwater is baised upon the breathing consumation of the diver some divers are very good on not using much air my daugther will come up on most of her dives with half of her air left when most orther divers on the boat need to be back on the boat but she has been swimming since she was a child , also she was in water balley and on swim team while in school makes a difference . Their are different size tanks some hold more cu. ft. of air than orthers you breath cu. ft. of air not pounds per square ft. As far as the weight a 80 cu. ft. aluminum tank weight's aprox. 40 lbs. and flotes when empty. Steel tanks are lighter and don,t flote when empty . The reason is steel tanks are thinner than aluminum but displace less water than aluminun . Howie
 Signature howie1a
Douglas W. \ - 29 Apr 2005 00:47 GMT > Most tanks have the same air you breath not o2 and the time they last > underwater is baised upon the breathing consumation of the diver some [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > flote when empty . The reason is steel tanks are thinner than aluminum > but displace less water than aluminun . Howie This is an English language newsgroup.
-- If Ward Churchill can be a college professor, what's David Duke waiting for? - Coulter
Adam Helberg - 29 Apr 2005 21:23 GMT > Most tanks have the same air you breath not o2 and the time they last > underwater is baised upon the breathing consumation of the diver some [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > flote when empty . The reason is steel tanks are thinner than aluminum > but displace less water than aluminun . Howie So you have superior daughters. My cats could last even longer on a tank of air, but they hate water.
Adam
howie1a - 29 Apr 2005 00:32 GMT On a fosil shark tooth dive in Venice Fl. with depth at approx 16 ft. 1/4 mile off the beach . My 2 daugthers with 80 cu. ft. tanks get about 2 1/2 to 3 hrs. of bottom time on theise tanks but I a 6 ft. 185 lb. male can only get 2 +hrs. females have smaller bodies and most of the time are much better on air ( longer dives ) than men. We use the same size tanks. Also you might like to know that most divers carry a 40 lb. tank and 12 lbs, of weights to be able to sink if wearing a wet suit 3 mill. thick you can add 4 more lb. to offset the bouance of the wet suit.
 Signature howie1a
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