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Scuba Forum / General / August 2004water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?
Hello, Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean, mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if possible. Thanks, Mario > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Mario It depends upon the speed of the craft that one falls from ... or at least it seems that way ... Bart F. >> Hello, >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Bart F. Altitude counts for a little, too.  Signaturedillon When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark and the horse's name was Bob. > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Mario On a more serious note, you need to clarify your question slightly. Do you want the density of the water or the solution (ie. water, salt, minerals, fish piss, algae, etc. etc.?) The water, by definition, is the same density for the same temperature and pressure, no matter the location. Generally, the saltier the water, the lower the density. That's why you need more weight in the ocean vs. a fresh water lake. Bart F. > > Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean, > > mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if > > possible. > On a more serious note, you need to clarify your question slightly. Do > you want the density of the water or the solution (ie. water, salt, > minerals, fish piss, algae, etc. etc.?) No need to clarify. The question was pretty clear to start. No need to overcomplicate. > The water, by definition, is the same density for the same temperature > and pressure, no matter the location. Not in the generally used sense of the word water. >Generally, the saltier the water, the lower the density. That's why you need more weight in the ocean vs. > a fresh water lake. Ummm, no. You've got it backwards. The saltier the water, the higher the density. That is why you need more weight in the ocean vs a fresh water lake. Lee That should teach me to type at 6:30 in the morning. Thanks for correcting my blooper, Lee. And I minored in Coastal Zone Ecology ... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Bart >>>Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean, >>>mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Lee >> Hello, >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Bart F. Bart - would not that be the other way around. More salt, more density? Yeah. I was asleep. >>> Hello, >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> > Bart - would not that be the other way around. More salt, more density? > > Hello, > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > the lower the density. That's why you need more weight in the ocean vs. > a fresh water lake. I think you've got that arse about face. The saltier(!), or more correctly the higher the salinity or salt content, i.e. increasing Kg NaCl/Litres of H20, the DENSER the solution, therefore the greater the buoyancy, so requiring MORE ballast (Lead) not less. In general, Salinity is a variable, dependent upon several factors, mainly: Depth of sea, Rock formations of sea-bed & coastline, average ambient temperature (evaporation issues), where the sea is 'fed' from (freshwater mountain rivers / streams, underground water table and what rocks the water passes through, etc.) Salinity is not a constant, but can be averaged, however, it is highly variable, especially near a coastline and at the surface due to factors such as freshwater estuaries (often shown by a visible salocline with a 'shimmering' at the boundary or interface of the two differing densities of water, and also from surface evaporation. In addition to salinity water temperature affects it's density, as water is most dense at 4 degrees Celsius (39.2 Fahrenheit). > Bart F. > In addition to salinity water temperature affects it's density, as water is > most dense at 4 degrees Celsius (39.2 Fahrenheit). To be even vorse the desity and temperature curve differes with the salinity of the water. +4°C is for freash water. Salty water have it's maximun a bit lower depending on the salinity of the water. / Balp Signaturehttp://anders.arnholm.nu/ Keep on Balping >>>Hello, >>> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > In addition to salinity water temperature affects it's density, as water is > most dense at 4 degrees Celsius (39.2 Fahrenheit). Quite right, of course. It reminds me of an interesting thought problem ... that of the elusive "Perpetual Motion Machine". Typically, with warmer water near the surface, the amount of salt held in solution is greater, ie. saltier, and therefore denser. Unless there is a lot of mixing, this is usually the case. So, if one were able to put, say, a three mile deep vertical pipe, with the upper end just out of the water, and then apply suction to the top to get the flow going upwards, less dense water would be in the tube. And thus, the water would flow up and out of the tube, in theory, forever, with no external energy applied to the system save the difference in pressure between the external water and the internal water. Unfortunately, other factors get in the way, such as friction. But it's an interesting concept. FWIW, Bart F. > Quite right, of course. It reminds me of an interesting thought problem > ... that of the elusive "Perpetual Motion Machine". Typically, with [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > and the internal water. Unfortunately, other factors get in the way, > such as friction. But it's an interesting concept. Apart from that suction, of course and the fact that the sun has a lot to do with the varying salinity. However, perhaps a rain-powered turbine might give you a similar & simpler result, based on evaporation, condensation & precipitation! :-) > > Hello, > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > and pressure, no matter the location. Generally, the saltier the water, > the lower the density. Isn't that backwards? By adding weight (lead), you are increasing your density so that you will sink more easily. Isn't this because saltwater is more dense than freshwater? > That's why you need more weight in the ocean vs. > a fresh water lake. > > Bart F. Yup. Sorry folks!! (cringing from well earned lashing) >>>Hello, >>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >> >>Bart F. > Yup. Sorry folks!! (cringing from well earned lashing) Sorry for the extra punishment. If i had realized that this had already been pointed out I would have kept my comments to myself. <plus, apologies to Popeye for apologizing... doh> >Generally, the saltier the water, > the lower the density. That's why you need more weight in the ocean vs. > a fresh water lake. Of course you know by now that you got it exactly backwards... Gordon in Austin > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Mario "Average" is not relevant in the Carib. We have too many layers and currents of differing temperature and salinity. But a pint's a pound, the world around. > But a pint's a pound, the world around. Not here it bloody isn't - I got robbed of three quid for a pint of Stella not so long ago... ;-) CAS >> Hello, >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > But a pint's a pound, the world around. Nah, it's "A litre's a kilogram, the world around." Cheers, Gary B-) Signature______________________________________________________________________________ Armful of chairs: Something some people would not know whether you were up them with or not - Barry Humphries >> But a pint's a pound, the world around. >> >Nah, it's "A litre's a kilogram, the world around." Only if it's distilled water. safe diving, bullshark >>> Hello, >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> > Nah, it's "A litre's a kilogram, the world around." Naw, that doesn't even rhyme. All good scientific principles rhyme! >But a pint's a pound, the world around. Except in the USA where we have two different standards for 'pint'. safe diving, bullshark Did you dive last weekend? The vis sucked from DelRay to Lynns. >> Hello, >> Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >But a pint's a pound, the world around. That would be a US pint presumably and "the world" as in World Series Baseball games Regards SignaturePeter R Cook >>But a pint's a pound, the world around. >> > That would be a US pint presumably and "the world" as in World Series > Baseball games Uppity furriners! > >> Hello, > >> Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean, > >> mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if > >> possible. > >> Thanks, > >> Mario you're not related to Akkula by any chance are you? > <snip> > But a pint's a pound, the world around. My 1960's school rhyme was "A pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter".** (which is handy, 'cos then a gallon weighs 10 pounds) But then I live in the UK where Imperial *means* Imperial ;-) PeterS Remove my PANTS to reply. ** Fresh water, I'm sure my primary school teacher meant to say. > My 1960's school rhyme was "A pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter".** If I remember the rhyme right, it's 'A pint of *pure* water weighs a pound an a quarter'. - Keith >> <snip> >> But a pint's a pound, the world around. > > My 1960's school rhyme was "A pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter".** > (which is handy, 'cos then a gallon weighs 10 pounds) > But then I live in the UK where Imperial *means* Imperial ;-) As long as it rhymes. That's all that's important. >Hello, > >Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean, >mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if >possible. Salinity can be converted to density if you know temperature and pressure here: http://www.es.flinders.edu.au/~mattom/Utilities/density.html Here you can find salinity for various regions: http://aquarius.gsfc.nasa.gov/overview-sss.html Average is considered ~35 ppt safe diving, bullshark > Hello, > > Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean, No! Nobody knows what kind of average you're talking about. :-) Averaged over location, time, temperature, pressure ..., to name just a few relevant factors on "density". > mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if > possible. As the bullshark hinted, if you only want to rank-order the buoyancy of these seas, you only need to know the salinity of the water. The salinity of the upper layer of the Dead Sea is about 10 times that of the Mediterranean. The Red Sea is the next highest salinity. The Black Sea, on the other hand, is only about half the salinity of the oceans. You wanna measure salinity in metric units? millisiemens (mS) a common unit of conductance equal to 0.001 siemens or 1 milliampere of current per volt of potential difference. The millisiemens is often used to measure the salinity of seawater or brackish water, since adding salt to water makes it much more conductive of electricity. I don't have the slightest idea how many mS each of the seas measure. :) -- Bob. Hello, Excuse me if my question was not so clear, sorry, yes I would like to know the density and salinity of caribean, maditerranean, red sea, dead sea, and black sea. As you say yes the upper layer will be ok as I know it changes according to temperature and pressure. I would like the values of density and salinity not only the ratio between the different seas. Anyone has it please? Thanks, Mario > > Hello, > > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > -- Bob. > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > As you say yes the upper layer will be ok as I know it changes > according to temperature and pressure. But I think you missed the point that your question CANNOT be correctly answered without specifying the temperature and pressure of the seas in question. The rank-order or ratio will remain approximately the same all year round (assuming nearly comparable temperatures and pressures without knowing what those actually are). > I would like the values of density and salinity not only the ratio > between the different seas. I am curious as to WHY. If this a project in a physics class in school? > Anyone has it please? I doubt it. If you specify the precise temperature and pressure, someone might, but those are unlikely to be the temperature and pressure at ANY given time, at the same time. So, again, WHY are you so bent (sorry for the choice of term <g>) on the density VALUES? > Thanks, > > Mario -- Bob. > > > Hello, > > > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > > > -- Bob. > > Hello, > > [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > > > > > > -- Bob. I doubt that the density of water varies much with pressure. To a first approximation, water is an incompressible fluid. Gordon in Austin > Reef Fish wrote: <in response to Mario> > > > > But I think you missed the point that your question CANNOT be correctly > > answered without specifying the temperature and pressure of the seas > > in question. Undaunted, Mario ssked again, > > > Anyone has it please? > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > > -- Bob. > I doubt that the density of water varies much with pressure. To a first > approximation, water is an incompressible fluid. > > Gordon in Austin True to a first approximation. Mario and Gordon and whoever else bent on density: http://www.ucdsb.on.ca/tiss/stretton/chem2/data19.htm -- Bob. > > Reef Fish wrote: <in response to Mario> > > > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > http://www.ucdsb.on.ca/tiss/stretton/chem2/data19.htm Damn. that explains it! diving in cold water is harder because the water is thicker! I knew there had to be a reason. > -- Bob. > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Mario This would be interesting to know as I believe there is a difference in weight requirements when you go diving in different areas of the world. I spend some time on Google trying to find it without success. I did find that the Red Sea is one of the more saline ones but nothing worth posting. Adam >I would like the values of density and salinity not only the ratio >between the different seas. I gave you a page that converts salinity to density. I gave you a page that shows salinity around the world. All you had to do was read and click. [snip] > millisiemens (mS) [snip] So, how many millisiemens to a Nokia? Sorry, couldn't resist! > [snip] > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sorry, couldn't resist! and I though that millisiemens was mouse ejaculate. live and learn. > > So, how many millisiemens to a Nokia? > and I though that millisiemens was mouse ejaculate. You're weird. Cliff. |
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