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Scuba Forum / General / August 2004below what surface interval is considered same dive ?
Hello, Bellow what surface interval time is considered the same dive and not a new dive? Is this value same for all different diving schools ? Thanks, Mario > Bellow what surface interval time is considered the same dive and not a new > dive? 12 hours. > Is this value same for all different diving schools ? No. There is at least one school that knows how to dive. You're not certified, are you?  Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > € Bellow what surface interval time is considered the same dive and not a new > € dive? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > You're not certified, are you? ???? If I go for a double dive with a 2 hour surface interval, you are saying that is one dive?? /viz > ???? Yup. That's what we thought. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > € ???? > > Yup. That's what we thought. Sorry - I actually had attributed that post to the wrong poster. I think you are right - someone here has not done a course, and needs to do one pronto if they intend diving... /viz > € Bellow what surface interval time is considered the same dive and not a new > € dive? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > You're not certified, are you? And you don't know the answer, do you? > > ? Bellow what surface interval time is considered the same dive and not a new > > ? dive? > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > And you don't know the answer, do you? 5 minutes > > > > Bellow what surface interval time is considered the same dive and not > a new [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > 5 minutes We're very proud, but we type faster than that. Two minutes. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > No. There is at least one school that knows how to dive. And many that you do not know about. > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Mario May I suggest that you first get certified? You'll notice that the answers to these and many other basic questions are given during the course... SignatureMichael Wolf ----- Cthulhu For President. Why settle for the lesser evil? remove stopspam to reply If you have the answer, why dont you share it with us please > > Hello, > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > answers to these and many other basic questions are given during the > course... > If you have the answer, why dont you share it with us please The others already answered it, but please: follow a course! >>>Hello, >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >>answers to these and many other basic questions are given during the >>course... SignatureMichael Wolf ----- Cthulhu For President. Why settle for the lesser evil? remove stopspam to reply > The others already answered it, but please: follow a course! Let him die. I'll fill your tanks, no cert card needed. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > If you have the answer, why dont you share it with us please The answer is, "it depends". It is a procedural, not scientific, determination. If you are using tables, the length of time to drop a letter group is the answer. Most computers will start a new dive sequence after an arbitrary surface interval, usually in excess of five minutes. If yer a sat diver, ya eat dinner and catch some sleep and yer still on the same dive. For me, it's the length of time to change tanks plus eat a banana, except in winter when I add five minutes of hot shower. >> If you have the answer, why dont you share it with us please > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > For me, it's the length of time to change tanks plus eat a banana, > except in winter when I add five minutes of hot shower. "Winter"? You mean that it snows in Florida? Wow.... how "cool".... Hello, Mario schrieb: > If you have the answer, why dont you share it with us please There is no unique answer. It depends on how deep you were, how long you have been diving: The answers is to be calculatend from tables - or by your diving computer. This you will learn in courses. Regards Klaus > Hello, > > Bellow what surface interval time is considered the same dive and not a new > dive? On some dive tables, the rule is that if the Surface Interval (SI) is less than 10 minutes, the "next" dive is accounted as an extension of the "first" dive instead of as a new dive. > Is this value same for all different diving schools ? Probably not. -hh This is what I thought, in PADI dive tables is how many minutes? Thanks, Mario > > Hello, > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > -hh > This is what I thought, in PADI dive tables is how many minutes? > I'm not sure...I don't have a current PADI table laying around to check its instructions. The main thing is to always "Read the Fine Manual", if for no other reason than things like this are known to vary. Another variation, as someone pointed out, was that the definitions of bottom time also varies between various tables too. And in the fine print of at least one Table, there's special provisions on how to add to the bottom time if the ascent rate was too slow. The Devil's in the details. -hh The original US Navy Dive tables only tracked tissue loading for the slowest tissue group (I think it was 120min group). The theory is that after 10 minutes of surface interval, the 120 minute group always had the highest N2 loading. (fast tissues also off-gas fast). So if you spent less than 10 minutes on the surface, the shorter tissue groups might have higher N2 loading than allowed in the tables. So you treated <10min surface intervals as a continuation of the previous dive. >This is what I thought, in PADI dive tables is how many minutes? > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >>-hh >> 10 minutes > Bellow what surface interval time is considered the same dive and not a new dive? 10 minutes according to the tables (NAUI and Navy, at least). 5 minutes according to my computer (Suunto Vyper). YMMV g >10 minutes > > > >>Bellow what surface interval time is considered the same dive and not a new dive? >> 10 mn for a Suunto favor Air 5mn for a Suunto Mosquito. Maybe Suunto should stick to one timing!!!! For practical raisons I prefer 10mn. -Back on the boat to fix my flooding torch =7mn => 2 dives logged, grrr -Very shallow dive 1~1.5m, multiple dive logged!!! 5mn for the French table MN 90 >10 minutes according to the tables (NAUI and Navy, at least). > >5 minutes according to my computer (Suunto Vyper). For my Email add .au at the end of alain@comcen.com > 10 mn for a Suunto favor Air > 5mn for a Suunto Mosquito. > Maybe Suunto should stick to one timing!!!! But the Favor is about a million years old (well.... maybe I exaggerate a bit) - you'd expect the algorithms and setup to have changed in all that time, especially given the nature of decompression theory (ie it is just a theory, not exact numbers). > For practical raisons I prefer 10mn. > -Back on the boat to fix my flooding torch =7mn => 2 dives logged, > grrr Just ignore the first - no problem. > -Very shallow dive 1~1.5m, multiple dive logged!!! 1m is barely a puddle... I'm not a fan of snorkels, but that would certainly be one time to snorkel rather than dive. David >But the Favor is about a million years old I agree >> -Back on the boat to fix my flooding torch =7mn => 2 dives logged, >Just ignore the first - no problem. Not a real problem, just annoying to have 2 dives in your computer. >> -Very shallow dive 1~1.5m, multiple dive logged!!! >1m is barely a puddle... I'm not a fan of snorkels, but that would certainly >be one time to snorkel rather than dive. I agree, but it was a night dive from the shore in Mabul (Supadan). I did not thing I will find so many thing. Also I do not snorkel (free dive) during a diving trip. Alain For my Email add .au at the end of alain@comcen.com > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Mario Basicly whatever is deemed safe at the time. If you were doing an Open Water course and you had been at 6m for 45min, then 10mins changing cylinders and off you go again. If however you were on a course that had a proper dive, say 20m at least, then there would have to be a decent surface interval prior to you doing another 20m dive. What is frowned upon is not getting out. In other words surfacing and then going back again even if it is only 6 mts. Part of any basic course is the repetition of kitting up, doing buddy checks etc. Basic familiarisation with kit is very important. I've had to re-teach many a diver who skipped or more lilkey was told to skip, this bit on there basic course. TerryH > Hello, > > Bellow what surface interval time is considered the same dive and not a new dive? > > Is this value same for all different diving schools ? It's not an easy question to answer. If you're on most tables, your dive time stops when your direct ascent begins. Once you've reached the surface, you really can't count anything as the same dive, even though you may be in the same repetitive dive group. For dive computers, it depends on the computer. I think mine considers a dive done after 10 minutes. The time probably varies from one manufacturer to another. The best answer I can come up with is "it doesn't matter." You plan the dive or dives according to the tools of your choice, be that tables, computer or custom tables developed by a computer program run on the surface and do them according to your plan . . . or according to what you're computer thinks is OK. Lee > Lee types: If you're on most tables, your dive > time stops when your direct ascent begins. Once you've reached the surface, > you really can't count anything as the same dive, even though you may be in > the same repetitive dive group. Not correct. When using tables, your bottom time stops when your ascent begins but your surface interval does not start until you reach the surface. It is a bit different with a computer. Each is a little different, but you should not confuse the procedures used with tables with protocols developed for computers. SignatureSafe diving, Dale Bennett Captain Dale's, Inc. Enterprise Marine, Inc., Dive Charters > Not correct. When using tables, your bottom time stops when your ascent > begins but your surface interval does not start until you reach the surface. Of course, some tables use dive time and not bottom time. Jason Signaturehttp://www.scuba-addict.co.uk/ for Aussie diving reports including the Coral Sea, Ningaloo reef, the Solitaries and Byron Bay > Of course, some tables use dive time and not bottom time. > Jason All the computers that I am familiar with use dive time in their logging feature. Depth pressure is integrated over time in a way that is just not possible with tables. Usually, if the computer measures less than 3 to 5 fsw for more than about 5 minutes it resets to a new dive. If pressure is restored within this time (the diver descends) the computer continues to consider the exposure a single dive. However, with a computer this does not usually change the way the algorithm calculates the exposure. The only real difference is in how it logs the dive(s). Safe diving, Dale Bennett Captain Dale's, Inc. Enterprise Marine, Inc., Dive Charters > > Of course, some tables use dive time and not bottom time. > > Jason [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Captain Dale's, Inc. > Enterprise Marine, Inc., Dive Charters Read it again, "captain". Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > Read it again, "captain". You're right. I read the post a bit too quickly. I am not familiar with every table out there, but those that I have seen all used bottom time (time from start of descent to start of ascent). I suppose there could be some that use run time but that would be a bit complicated since that includes decompression time. Usually one wants to start with bottom time first and then calculate deco and run time. Starting out with total run time seems a little backwards to me. Safe diving, Dale Bennett Captain Dale's, Inc. Enterprise Marine, Inc., Dive Charters > You're right. I read the post a bit too quickly. I am not familiar with > every table out there, but those that I have seen all used bottom time (time > from start of descent to start of ascent). I suppose there could be some BSAC 88s use dive time, where I believe that dive time is defined as the time from descent until your first stop. As for computers, well they track your N2 (or He) saturation over a number of compartments in real time based on your current depth. So if you surface even momentarily, your deco status will be different compared with if you didn't. The number of dives you've made is irrelevant. It's only the depths and times you've been at them that count. (and the gases your breath). Jason SignatureSee http://www.scuba-addict.co.uk/ for Caribbean trip reports including Aruba, Cuba, Grand Bahama, Barbados, St Lucia and Mexico >BSAC 88s use dive time, where I believe that dive time is defined as the >time from descent until your first stop. Correct -- Pete news 'at' melbourne 'dot' me 'dot' uk > > Read it again, "captain". > > You're right. I read the post a bit too quickly. I am not familiar with > every table out there, but those that I have seen all used bottom time (time > from start of descent to start of ascent). Its not just the definitions, but also the Table's fine print. For example, the traditional USN dive table has a "miscellaneous" type of note in its fine print that many people either never learned about. Specifically, it states that if the diver's ascent is delayed (including simply being slower than the table's 60ft/min rate), the additional amount of time that it took to get up to shallower than 50fsw is added to the diver's bottom time. A simple illustration of this is a dive to 110fsw: at a 60ft/min ascent rate, the diver's ascent should get him up to 50fsw in 1 minute. If he ascends more slowly, it takes longer and this extra time as per the USN table is added to the bottom time: a 30ft/min ascent rate would take him 2 minutes, so this is a +1 minute bottom time "penalty". Etc. -hh >Bellow what surface interval time is considered the same dive and not a new dive? > >Is this value same for all different diving schools ? 5 minutes. --- Rich http://richlockyer.tripod.com/ |
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