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Scuba Forum / General / August 2004A question of depth
Gidday, this is my first post here. Last year I dived the Blue Hole near Caye Caulker off Belize. At the time I had about 40 dives at home (New Zealand) in cold water and 15 or so overseas in warm water. I'd never been deeper than 80ft so this was my first "deep dive". Before this dive we were told the depth would be 135 feet. I thought OK I'm up for it but mentioned to the dive master my experience. He said he would buddy up with me and keep an eye on me. Well, it was without doubt the most amazing dive. But at 135 feet I got mildly (?) narked - an unbelievable feeling but pretty scary for a moment or two nonetheless. PADI recommends that Open Water divers restrict their depth to 60ft. Yet most diivers I know ignore such recommendations. What are other people's thoughts about this? Looking back I now know mine - which is why I'm planning to do a deep water specialty course this summer. Hugh > PADI recommends that Open Water divers restrict their depth to 60ft. > Yet most diivers I know ignore such recommendations. > > What are other people's thoughts about this? For the most part, we don't care what PADI says. Their recommendations are binding on nobody but their own professionals, if that. Many of us weren't certified by PADI. Some of us are quite proud of that fact. > Looking back I now know mine - which is why I'm planning to do a deep > water specialty course this summer. Can't hurt. I suggest, however, you take this opportunity to get some cross fertilization. Take it from somebody other than PADI. As I recall, SSI also trains down your way. Lee > Gidday, this is my first post here. > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Hugh Some folks are more susceptible to narc than others. In all folks, the degree of impairment varies with effort, water temp, CO2 retention, phase of the moon, whatever. Before either PADI or mixed gas was common, divers either learned to cope with it, or didn't go deep. Coping with it means being aware of the limitations that narc imposes, and planning and executing yer dive within those limitations. PADI knows that the degeneration of the human species over the past few decades obviates divers taking responsibility for their actions, planning, and execution especially on dives involving more risk than staying in bed. Therefore, if you are under 40 don't dive deeper than 60'. If you are over 40, you've been there, done that, and it's no big deal. > > What are other people's thoughts about this? > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > degree of impairment varies with effort, water temp, CO2 retention, > phase of the moon, whatever. Sometimes I get narced at more shallow depths than others. Generally, my narcs are a relatively pleasant experience though I've had a few dark narcs. (shudder) Depth aside, I've never been able to figure what kicked a narc in me, pleasant or dark. Perhaps it has occurred on the days that I was more tired than another . . or maybe it was my mood prior to hitting the water . . .or maybe as you say, the phase of the moon. > Before either PADI or mixed gas was common, divers either learned to > cope with it, or didn't go deep. Coping with it means being aware of the > limitations that narc imposes, and planning and executing yer dive > within those limitations. Learning to recognize it early is somewhat helpful. > PADI knows that the degeneration of the human species over the past few > decades obviates divers taking responsibility for their actions, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > If you are over 40, you've been there, done that, and it's no big deal. What? Laid in bed? ;^) >> > What are other people's thoughts about this? >> > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >tired than another . . or maybe it was my mood prior to hitting the water . >. .or maybe as you say, the phase of the moon. I will sometimes get dark narced (nice term) in Travis in as little as 80 ft. Of course, Travis at 80 ft can sometimes be creepy, between 3 ft viz and the trees. OTOH, I've been to 120 in Hawai'i with no problems, although I do have a picture of my computer showing 111. People ask me why I took the picture, I just say that the nitrogen told me to. >> Before either PADI or mixed gas was common, divers either learned to >> cope with it, or didn't go deep. Coping with it means being aware of the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >What? Laid in bed? I'll take a lay anywhere, bed, couch, floor, etc. >;^)  Signaturedillon When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark and the horse's name was Bob. > Of course, Travis at 80 ft can sometimes be creepy, between 3 > ft viz and the trees. 80 ft in Lake Travis is dark enough to be a night dive... And cold... Really fuckin' cold... Heatstroke on the surface and hypothermia after around 60 ft or so... >> Of course, Travis at 80 ft can sometimes be creepy, between 3 >> ft viz and the trees. > > 80 ft in Lake Travis is dark enough to be a night dive... And cold... Really > fuckin' cold... Heatstroke on the surface and hypothermia after around 60 ft > or so... I dove Lake Travis many years ago, and I have one word of advice: Don't. >> Of course, Travis at 80 ft can sometimes be creepy, between 3 >> ft viz and the trees. > >80 ft in Lake Travis is dark enough to be a night dive... And cold... Really >fuckin' cold... Heatstroke on the surface and hypothermia after around 60 ft >or so... I've done 100 ft dives at Windy Point where a full wet suit was required in July. Ever seen someone pouring COLD water into a wet suit? Signaturedillon When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark and the horse's name was Bob. > I've done 100 ft dives at Windy Point where a full wet suit was > required in July. Ever seen someone pouring COLD water into a wet > suit? I can believe it... We had to put our gear on in the water instead of in my boat because we were getting a little too acquainted with Mr. Heatstroke... Pouring cold water into the wetsuits might have been an options, but that might have meant that our beer wouldn't be cold enough when we got back to the surface... Until we hit the thermoclime at around 60 ft, it was rather uncomfortably warm... Once we hit it, we were freezing our butts off in our 3mm wetsuits... Cold and dark... Followed the anchor line through the trees for awhile until we decided that it was better to go back to the surface, put up the gear, and spend the rest of the day driving fast around the lake and drinking beer... <burp> >> I've done 100 ft dives at Windy Point where a full wet suit was >> required in July. Ever seen someone pouring COLD water into a wet [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >put up the gear, and spend the rest of the day driving fast around the lake >and drinking beer... <burp> Careful son, both TPW and Travis County will gladly write you a ticket. And have your boat towed in if no one is sober enough (under .08). Figure $100 for the tow, $250 for the ticket. Recently read where two TPW officers saw a guy repeatedly slam his pontoon boat into the dock. When they approached the boat, they found several empty cases on the boat (8 people, I think). The driver blew a .18. He claimed he didn't know it was illegal to BWI. Signaturedillon When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark and the horse's name was Bob. > Careful son, both TPW and Travis County will gladly write you a > ticket. Awh hell, if they're anything like the Harris County Sheriffs, they'll write you a ticket for farting and causing a wake... I was trying to fix a fuel flow problem on my boat and was slightly to far above idle at the outer edge of the no-wake zone and got harrassed / robbed by the fuckin' Harris County Sheriff Department... The no-wake zone wasn't marked well enough and I was sure that I was outside of it... I didn't want to get too far away from shore since there was a significant probability that I would be paddling the boat back... I even had the cover to my engine compartment up and was alternating between giving it a little throttle, it dying, and me going back into the engine compartment... >> Gidday, this is my first post here. >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> >> Hugh My 1st open water dive ( check out dive was 80+ fsw. Its the norm foor diving in east coast Florida since that is the average depth of the reefs here. My instructer is a firm believer in teaching what you most likely encounter in local diving conditions. For me that meant 75 to 95 fsw in fast current. I was glad to get it since it would have been a real shock to hit those conditions after bieng trained only to the recomended limets. Jim > What are other people's thoughts about this? The PADI limits are probably set by lawyers, not divers... I don't believe in limits -- especially someone else telling me what I can do... How would you like it if they said you could *only* use sheep for food and wool? <snicker> > Gidday, this is my first post here. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > got mildly (?) narked - an unbelievable feeling but pretty scary for a > moment or two nonetheless. The Blue Hole being what it is, dark and kinda scary . . you being nervous about it in the first place . . it's reasonable that you might have a narc like that. But you handled yourself, didn't you? You must have loved the follow-up dives at Lighthouse and Halfmoon Caye? > PADI recommends that Open Water divers restrict their depth to 60ft. > Yet most diivers I know ignore such recommendations. > > What are other people's thoughts about this? My first few dives, I stuck it pretty close to the 60', believing in the magic of my PADI training. However, it didn't take too long before I was easily diving at 70', 80' and 90'. It is quite easy to do when diving in waters, such as the Caribbean. The 60' hopefully allows for a safe ESA should that become necessary. > Looking back I now know mine - which is why I'm planning to do a deep > water specialty course this summer. Never any harm in more taking more training. >> Gidday, this is my first post here. >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >waters, such as the Caribbean. The 60' hopefully allows for a safe ESA >should that become necessary. My first dive after OW was 90 ft on Palancar. Many dives that weekend were below 60. >> Looking back I now know mine - which is why I'm planning to do a deep >> water specialty course this summer. > >Never any harm in more taking more training. Agreed. So does experience. Signaturedillon When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark and the horse's name was Bob. >From: hugh_je_cock@yahoo.com (Hugh) >Date: 7/21/2004 7:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Hugh People nark at different depth for different reasons at different times. Now that you're aware of the problem, use it in your dive planning, but don't limit yourself with it. It may never happen again. Popeye "Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere," -Hannibal Lector. > Gidday, this is my first post here. Welcome to rec.scuba, Hugh. > I'd never been deeper than 80ft so this was my first "deep dive". Generally speaking, "firsts"of any sort will incur a higher stress, and in diving, stress is rarely a good thing. > Well, it was without doubt the most amazing dive. But at 135 feet I > got mildly (?) narked - an unbelievable feeling but pretty scary for a > moment or two nonetheless. Susceptibility to narcosis varies very widely. Its biggest problem tends to be that its "there" on pretty much all dives deeper that 60fsw or so, but at a low level that's often inperceptible and not a significant risk, which can lead to denial. The catch is that things don't usually go wrong, so you get into a "familiarity breeds contempt" attitude. But if something minor goes wrong that requires diver intervention, you can suddenly discover that your reactions are lousy and the small problem just got a lot bigger...it is this potential to snowball that is what leads to accidents and why narcosis impairment needs to be monitored and managed as an objective risk, treating each and every dive as a new and unique one. > PADI recommends that Open Water divers restrict their depth to 60ft. > Yet most divers I know ignore such recommendations. > > What are other people's thoughts about this? PADI's in the business to sell training. As such, they impose artificial limits that may have some basis in good science and practice, but can also contain a pound of bull. An example of this is the magic 130fsw limit...students are now being told that the partial pressure of Oxygen (PPO2) within air hits a "magic number" of 1.0 Atmospheres (1.0 ATM) at 130fsw. Yes, the math does work out that way, but that's not why 130fsw was selected as the limit 40+ years ago: the real reason had more to do with the technology limitations of the regulators and other equipment of the day, along with some pragmatism of getting practical work done from the air supply of a single St72 tank of the day. Revisionist history is at work here. > Looking back I now know mine - which is why I'm planning to do a deep > water specialty course this summer. I'll second Lee Bell's suggestion to look to take this training class from an Agency other than PADI. A lot of diving isn't rocket science, and it pays to round yourself out to hear the variety of opinions that exist on some subjects. -hh |
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