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Scuba Forum / General / May 2004

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Possible safety concern for Scuba divers...ON TOPIC!

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BllFs6 - 25 May 2004 16:30 GMT
Hi all...

interesting event described in a tech diver email list.....

Short story....diver does big mondo long/deep dives.....he's been doing the
same for years and years and no real problems...nothing new on this dive.....

He feels great, packs up, starts driving home.....and all of sudden feels SOOO
light headed that for a minute or two he thinks he's gonna pass out and is
barely able to pull of the road and operate the cell phone....but the feeling
quickly passes...

Of course the big discussion is was it a mini-stroke, some odd kind of nervous
system/brain/bubble DCS system or something along those lines.....

Well, it certainly COULD be that....but if it WAS what CAN you really do about
it?

There is another possiblity being discussed that even if it WASNT the problem
in THIS case...it certainly COULD  cause the same sorta problem for other
divers if they arent careful or are unware of the possiblity.....

He barely ate anything the whole day...

And as a person who's been stupid enough to do the same thing on land on more
than one occasion.....I can tell you that such a crash CAN come on WITHOUT
warning and get extremely bad before it subsides....and I'd hate to imagine
having such a thing actually happening while in the water....or worse
underwater and still having to extert oneself/think critically while it was
occurring....and no, my health is very good otherwise...I think my problem
stemms mostly from a rather low body fat...ie almost no reserves once the blood
sugar runs out...

So, short story.....make sure you ALWAYS eat well and the "right" things on
your diving days....no matter how rushed/excited you get....

Now, maybe this can evolve into a discussion of the "right" things to eat, when
to eat them etc etc....

take care

Bllll
Chris Guynn - 25 May 2004 17:26 GMT
<snip>

> Now, maybe this can evolve into a discussion of the "right" things to eat, when
> to eat them etc etc....

:-)
In true Texas fashion...
What to eat: lots and lots of red meat... preferably rare to medium rare...
with an occasional potato or three.
When to eat: when you're hungry.
:-)

> take care
>
> Bllll
Walter Willis - 25 May 2004 17:35 GMT
> interesting event described in a tech diver email list.....
>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> take care

Yep, sounds like low blood sugar to me - I have had that happen as well.  I
also found that low blood sugar will trigger migraines for me.  Thus I don't
go for long periods without eating something to keep the blood sugar up.

Walter
Matthias Voss - 25 May 2004 20:35 GMT
BllFs6 schrieb:

> Hi all...
>
> interesting event described in a tech diver email list.....

tech is being spelled "rebreather" lately.

Matthias
Scott - 25 May 2004 23:03 GMT
It was Rich Pyle, and he was doing some pretty hairy dives.

The jury is still out, but general consensus is that it was from not eating.

We may never know for sure.

Scott

> Hi all...
>
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>
> Bllll
- 26 May 2004 00:36 GMT
> It was Rich Pyle, and he was doing some pretty hairy dives.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Scott

When Rich was in PNG, he was doing some pretty hairy dives then too.  He
never did seem to eat very much and had to be reminded to eat quite often!


mike gray - 26 May 2004 00:41 GMT
> It was Rich Pyle, and he was doing some pretty hairy dives.
>
> The jury is still out, but general consensus is that it was from not eating.
>
> We may never know for sure.

As an insulin dependent diabetic. . .

Diving runs my blood glucose levels down faster than any other activity,
faster than mowing the lawn, working out, biking, whatever.

My theory is that it is the water temperature, and the body's attempt to
 warm the ocean to 98.6  The colder the water, the faster and greater
my drop in bG level.

With a "normal" person, the liver makes up for dramatic demands on
glucose levels. But if the person has not been eating, or if the demand
has been too great, there can be hypoglycemic symptoms, and I've heard
several comments from non-diabetics, post-dive, of mild and passing
symptoms that are the same as my "low" symptoms (slight dizziness,
slight disorientation, short-lived fatigue).

As Charlie Coughran explains it:

When a normal person starts to exercise (or loses a lot of body heat),
the insulin output of his pancreas goes down. At first blush, this seems
backward since the muscles are working hard and therefore require more
glucose to be transported from the blood into the cells. There are two
reasons more glucose can be transported with less available insulin. The
first is that during exercise insulin becomes much more efficient. The
mechanism of this effect is not fully understood, but it helps overcomes
the reduction in circulating insulin.

Second, exercise activates non-insulin mediated glucose transport
pathways. These pathways are not sufficient to handle the load in the
absence of insulin, but do increase the effective insulin efficiency.

When insulin levels decline relative to the counterregulatory hormones
(glucagon, epinephrine, norepinephrine, growth hormone, and cortisol)
the liver is stimulated to release stored glucose. The blood glucose
that is being transported into the cells is replaced by that from
hepatic stores. It is this hormonal balance system that keeps the
levels of blood glucose in the normal narrow range during exercise.

What we diabetics do is eat carbohydrates timed to arrive at the blood
stream in the form of glucose when it is needed, fast acting
carbohydrates immediately preceding the dive.

Exercise also produces effects at longer time scales. Sometime after
exercise, there is often a take up of blood glucose by the muscles to
replenish depleted stores. This most often occurs an hour or two after
exercise, but has been reported in the range of ½ hour to 48 hours.
Again, as is the case during exercise, artificially high insulin levels
will lead to hypoglycemia. Both diabetics and non-diabetics can
experience hypoglycemia after exercise.
Scott - 26 May 2004 02:37 GMT
Forwarded to Rich.

Primo stuff, Mike. He says he has been checked for everything, but as I am
sure you know, symptoms of diabetes are often mis-diagnosed.

I had a good friend who developed "juvenile onset diabetes" at 27. He
wouldn't quit drinking, and one night it cost him his sight.

I learned to type and read Braille, used to walk with him and his dog, and,
after his house got broken into, and he and his blind wife laid in bed and
listened to them ransack the house amid threats of death, I helped him buy a
pistol for himself and his wife.

We used to go to Pier 1 and buy cheapo coffee cups by the flat to throw out
into the sand for him to hear and shoot at.

After a few range sessions, I would not want to be the stupid f.cker that
broke into his house. He could hit a coffee cup, dead blind, as far as I
could throw one, in one or two shots.

He wouldn't quit drinking, and we eventually buried him. He may as well have
screwed that pistol I helped him get into his ear and pulled the trigger.

Diabetes is some wicked sh.t, as I understand it, the loose translation of
the Chinese word for diabetes is "the beginning of all sickness".

Scott

> > It was Rich Pyle, and he was doing some pretty hairy dives.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
> will lead to hypoglycemia. Both diabetics and non-diabetics can
> experience hypoglycemia after exercise.
 
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