Scuba Forum / General / May 2004
Cozumel Trip Report
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Ron Lee - 24 May 2004 03:32 GMT This only discusses my thoughts on Aldora dive shop.
Made a quick trip to Cozumel just over a week ago. Dove with Aldora (www.aldora.com) for the first time in about two years. There have been changes and overall there were good points and less than good points.
Changes: None of the DMs were recognizable. Everyone was new to me. Although Memo Mendoza is back (great guy), he runs the place. They are converting over to tanks (valves) that allow either DIN or yoke regulators to be used (removable insert) so if you do not want your regulator converted to DIN, you should not have to. The conversion is not 100% but I used my yoke setup the entire trip whereas before I used DIN.
They are stopping at Nachi Cocom for the surface interval instead of Playa Sol. This is great. Playa Sol was too loud and catered to cruise ship folks. So it was not ideal. Nachi Cocom is mucho better and more picturesque IMO.
Good Points:
1) Dive Duration - Up to 120 cu ft steel tanks mean longer dives for most people. Most first dives were 60 minutes whereas a person reported first dives with Sand Dollar I believe were typically 35 minutes. Of course a few people can make two hour dives to 200 feet max depth using twin Spare Airs, but most people will not make 60 minute dives on AL80 tanks. (If someone can show me that the typical first dive to 100 feet on an AL80 lasts an hour, I will correct my assumption - This means the representative person from a typical dive shop).
2) Surface Interval - Approximately 1.5 hours on a beach, with restaurant, restroom, pool, lounge chairs under palapas. Compare that to sitting on a boat travelling to the next dive site then sitting on a rocking boat. Personally, I prefer to run my feet through the sand while watching a sailboat go by, listening to the waves gently lapping on the shore (see picture at link below).
http://www.pcisys.net/~ronlee/Scuba/Cozumel/July2002/SurfaceInterval.jpg
3) Boats - Six passenger and fast. There are others as fast but if Aldora's were slow, the other good points would be adversely affected by taking all day to get to the dive sites and back.
4) Dive Site Selection - Typical...group consensus. Southern dive sites normal for the first dive and no extra charge.
Negative Points: These are negative things from my point of view and very likely will not be a factor for many divers.
1) Dive Duration - They seem to only want to go one hour. On three dives I came up with 1200, 1300 and 1400 psi of air and I am not the best on air consumption. (I did not note the ending air on three other dives). One dive, Palancar XXXX then Palancar Gardens was also only 60-65 minutes even though I could have gone 90 minutes. Perhaps I got on boats with people with worse air consumption than me, but when I do things to equalize air consumption such as drifting higher than the group, why cant those people do the same? Since I could not assess the air status for other divers, maybe things just worked against me this trip...or maybe Aldora only seeks one hour...then everyone up. If the later, then they are regressing towards mediocrity.
2) Mother Hen Syndrome - I don't appreciate the briefing were the DM says "Don't go below me, don't get ahead of me." This may have the veil of "safety" behind it but my response to that is poppycock. I don't need a DM to make me safe. I have made dives in places far more challenging than Cozumel without a DM and done it safely. 30 or 50' lower for a short duration is not a safety issue. Getting ahead is not a safety issue. I can get track of the group and should I have to surface separately, I can do it safely.
The reader can make their own opinion about my negative points. Other than those, Aldora does offer a dive experience that I believe surpasses that from a dive shop that uses AL80 tanks (and does their SI on a rocking boat).
Marcin Dobrucki - 24 May 2004 09:54 GMT Hey Ron,
> 1) Dive Duration - They seem to only want to go one hour. On three > dives I came up with 1200, 1300 and 1400 psi of air and I am not the > best on air consumption. (I did not note the ending air on three other > dives). One dive, Palancar XXXX then Palancar Gardens was also only > 60-65 minutes even though I could have gone 90 minutes. Perhaps I got ...
I think this is becoming standard practice. Dives limited to 60min regardless of how much gas you still have along. The reason, I think, is twofold: - boat schedules - safety
The boat schedule came into play for us a few times, if dives lasted more than 1h, there'd be shorter surface intervals, the boat wouldn't make to pick up another group for the afternoon, etc.
As for the safety, for instance in the Red Sea, due to the number of accidents where people kept "forgetting" to surface, they've limited all dives to 1h, 30m max, and 9m/s ascent rate. Fail that, and get a slagging from the DM.
> 2) Mother Hen Syndrome - I don't appreciate the briefing were the DM > says "Don't go below me, don't get ahead of me." This may have the > veil of "safety" behind it but my response to that is poppycock. I have come across this as well, and yes, the reason is safety. The DM is going to get blamed if something happens, so he sets the rules. Although I think it should generally be possible to agree with the DM that you will not be diving as part of the group. You need to remember that there is a liability for the diver safety with the diving operator, and they definately don't want to get sued.
I think it is important to remember that the rules are made based on an "average" diver. Sure, people with experience will complain, but there will also be divers for whom these will be challenging dives. As the operator/DM needs to think of everyone, they set the common lowest denominator into play.
/Marcin
Reef Fish - 24 May 2004 15:05 GMT Marcin Dobrucki (Marcin.Dobrucki@TAKETHISAWAY.nokia.com) wrote,
> I think it is important to remember that the rules are made based on > an "average" diver. Sure, people with experience will complain, No. People with experience will dive with other shops that are catered to experienced divers, and not to the lowest common denominator of inexperienced air-hogs.
> As the operator/DM needs to think of everyone, they set the common > lowest denominator into play. The best dive shops in Cozumel do not set the lowest common denomiator for everyone to follow. The inexperienced or the air-hogs are sent back to the boat early without adversely affecting the safety or comfort of them or the other divers.
Aldora had the lowest denominator policy for years.
Anyone who knows that policy, choose to dive with them, and complain, simply doesn't know the meaning of a Free Market choice.
-- Bob.
Joe English - 24 May 2004 18:58 GMT > Marcin Dobrucki (Marcin.Dobrucki@TAKETHISAWAY.nokia.com) wrote, > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > -- Bob. We had a real newbie - just had to dive with her husband (each in their late 50's - early 60's
Didn't know how to equalize, did not remember to drop her air. When she finally got down to 30' where the rest of the group was waiting, her masked got so fogged she could not see and did not know how to defog it underwater.
After the horrible dive which included the dm taking her hand and guiding her thru the dive. I asked about her mask and why she just didn't put a little water in it and clear the mask. She responded that she was not about to take her mask off in 60' of water. I wanted to tell her that she should go back to her certifying dive shop and get her money back.
We spend half our dive getting her ready, and moving in the water. I know we were all newbies at one time, but equalizing and clearing your mask should be second nature, along with dumping air, by the time you are getting into real water!
Chris - 25 May 2004 02:36 GMT > are converting over to tanks (valves) that allow either DIN or yoke > regulators to be used (removable insert) I don't recall inserts when I was there in March. They had HP120s and 100's with yoke.
> 2) Surface Interval - Approximately 1.5 hours on a beach, with > restaurant, restroom, pool, lounge chairs under palapas. The SI's are actually well over 2 hours including the time getting out of the water, going to the beach and returning.
> Personally, I prefer to run my feet through the sand I don't like the sand at Coz.
> 1) Dive Duration - They seem to only want to go one hour. On three > dives I came up with 1200, 1300 and 1400 psi of air and I am not the > best on air consumption. Must be the people on the boat. My first dives were typically around 70 minutes at 105' and my second dives were typically around 80 minutes at 60ft. I had Gustapho (sp?) for a DM and he never seemed to want to rush me out of the water.
> 2) Mother Hen Syndrome - I don't appreciate the briefing were the DM > says "Don't go below me, don't get ahead of me." You have to realize they deal with alot of idiots. I find that once you dive with them your actions speak louder then your words.
Reef Fish - 25 May 2004 07:21 GMT > I had Gustapho (sp?) for a DM Most likely spelt "Gustavo".
> > 2) Mother Hen Syndrome - I don't appreciate the briefing were the DM > > says "Don't go below me, don't get ahead of me." > > You have to realize they deal with alot of idiots. Could that be the etymology of the term "Aldora idiots"? :-))
-- Bob.
Ron Lee - 25 May 2004 14:46 GMT >> > 2) Mother Hen Syndrome - I don't appreciate the briefing were the DM >> > says "Don't go below me, don't get ahead of me." [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >-- Bob. I see you still have an anger issue Bob.
Ron Lee
Reef Fish - 25 May 2004 20:50 GMT > >> > 2) Mother Hen Syndrome - I don't appreciate the briefing were the DM > >> > says "Don't go below me, don't get ahead of me."
> >> You have to realize they deal with alot of idiots. You should have correctly attributed the line above to "Chris" <chr_remove_pai@yahoo.com> who wrote in message news:<Cqxsc.231$Lw3.149@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>...
and this was my follow-up to Chris's line about "alot of idiots" diving with Aldora:
> >Could that be the etymology of the term "Aldora idiots"? :-)) > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Ron Lee I see you are still severely humor impaired.
The significance of the correct attribution, apart from my timely joke, was that here we have an Aldora diver, calling other Aldora divers "idiots", "alot of idiots". :-)))
MOREOVER ...
Why is it that you didn't do your usual song-and-dance about Chris's "name calling"? Hmmmmm? Because he gets your special consideration for having dived with Aldora, he he was the one who called the Aldora divers "alot of idiots"?
You're such a humorless hypocrite. That's scary, Ron Lee!
-- Bob.
Chris - 26 May 2004 01:53 GMT > The significance of the correct attribution, apart from my timely joke, > was that here we have an Aldora diver, calling other Aldora divers > "idiots", "alot of idiots". :-))) No, thats not what I said at all. I was reffering to DM's in general dealing with idiot divers.
The real irony that is sure to piss you off is that I choose Aldora and La Bahia partly because of your once upon a time glowing reccomendation of the two.
Ron Lee - 26 May 2004 02:30 GMT >> The significance of the correct attribution, apart from my timely joke, >> was that here we have an Aldora diver, calling other Aldora divers >> "idiots", "alot of idiots". :-))) > >No, thats not what I said at all. I was reffering to DM's in general >dealing with idiot divers. And I suspect that a better wording is that they have to deal with many inexperienced divers.
Ron Lee
Philip Walker - 26 May 2004 05:00 GMT Sounds like you guys have been around Cozumel a bit. I'm headed down to Play del Carmen in June. Any consensus on who to dive with or avoid?
Many thanks,
Phil
> >> The significance of the correct attribution, apart from my timely joke, > >> was that here we have an Aldora diver, calling other Aldora divers [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Ron Lee Reef Fish - 26 May 2004 08:30 GMT > > The significance of the correct attribution, apart from my timely joke, > > was that here we have an Aldora diver, calling other Aldora divers > > "idiots", "alot of idiots". :-))) > > No, thats not what I said at all. I was reffering to DM's in general > dealing with idiot divers. Okay, Chris. Let's look at those THREE specific lines in question:
Ron> 2) Mother Hen Syndrome - I don't appreciate the briefing were Ron> the DM says "Don't go below me, don't get ahead of me."
Ron was complaining about the DM at the Aldora boat in which he dived. Not about DMs in general.
Chris> You have to realize they deal with alot of idiots.
Why would you refer to the "they" of OTHER shops, when Ron was complaining about the DM of Aldora? Besides, isn't that the same reason why the Aldora DM behaved the way he did -- because he had to deal with "alot of idiots" in the Aldora boats in which he worked as DM??
> The real irony that is sure to piss you off is that I choose Aldora and La > Bahia partly because of your once upon a time glowing reccomendation of the > two. The only irony is that you don't know what you're talking about and you don't know how to use the archives to check the FACTS before you insert foot in your mouth.
First of all, you and Ron Lee should get together and compare notes about my "glowing recommendation of Aldora". :-)))))))
I always slammed idiots who said "Aldora is BEST" without any substantiation. I always acknowledged that Aldora was AMONG the dozen or so best (before it deteriorated to the present). But I am certain I never gave a "glowing recommendation" of Aldora to anyone. Shirley you didn't mistake me for Ron!! <gasp>
As for the Bahia Suites Hotel, or simply the Hotel Bahia, there is no secret that I recommend it highly, to everyone! I've stayed there (in the same suite no less) every time I go to Cozumel, since 1996. :-) I recommended the hotel to my friends who gathered there in 1999 in a NEDfest. So why should I be pissed off if anyone took my recommendation?
It's not "La Bahia", BTW. http://www.cozumel-hotels.net/bahia/
Chris, you're just a confused new kid on the block.
But you are correct in pointing out to Ron that the Aldora DM behaved the way he did was because he has to deal with "alot of idiots" who dive on Aldora boats for which he works as DM.
Quit trying to wiggle out of something CORRECT that you said.
-- Bob.
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