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Scuba Forum / General / May 2004

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Lefty Loosey; Rightie Tightie

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Larry Anta - 13 May 2004 15:47 GMT
"Which way do I turn the knob if I'm standing behind it?"

BLAM!  It hit me like a ton of bricks.  While I have no trouble knowing
which way to turn a knob no matter where I am with respect to it, a female
friend asked, "Which way do I turn the knob if I'm standing behind it?"  I
think I know why some people have no trouble with the concept while others
struggle like my friend, and I *think* it might lie roughly along gender
lines, though not exclusively.

If I'm correct, males will generally use spatial thinking, while females
will generally use what I'll call "verbal" thinking.  The issue seems to
cross over to other things like sense of direction, map reading, etc.  This
is all speculation on my part and  I'm not trying to start a flame war here.
For example, I'm not saying *all* men or *all* women.

If I have to reach for a knob behind my back or around a corner (or both), I
"solve" it by visualizing a phantom individual in the "standard" position
with respect to the knob (ie. facing it) and imagine that person's hand
turning the knob.  Then I turn the knob in whatever direction this phantom
person would, without attaching a word to the action like "left" or "right."
My female friend was "thinking" in *words*, perhaps something like, "If it's
normally left, I have to now change it in my mind to right because I'm
behind it."  (It doesn't surprise me that she has near-perfect recall of
song lyrics!)

I'm curious whether there are many female scuba divers who think about knob
turning "spatially" and whether there are many male scuba divers who do so
"verbally."
R Benner - 13 May 2004 15:54 GMT
What? You want to discuss something to do with Scuba Diving? You have a lot
of nerve!

Someone toss the bum out! Depart! Begone!

And from a fellow Canadian too. The shame.....

> "Which way do I turn the knob if I'm standing behind it?"
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> turning "spatially" and whether there are many male scuba divers who do so
> "verbally."
Larry Anta - 13 May 2004 16:15 GMT
> What? You want to discuss something to do with Scuba Diving? You have a lot
> of nerve!
>
> Someone toss the bum out! Depart! Begone!
>
> And from a fellow Canadian too. The shame.....

Sorry.  I don't know what I was thinking!

Let me rephrase more appropriately for this group.  Do men tend to spin
their revolvers with their thumb while aiming at a target while women tend
to peer down the barrel of the gun to see whether a bullet is in place?  :)
Michael Wolf - 13 May 2004 16:25 GMT
>>What? You want to discuss something to do with Scuba Diving? You have a
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> their revolvers with their thumb while aiming at a target while women tend
> to peer down the barrel of the gun to see whether a bullet is in place?  :)

and to stir things up even more: ...and shoot themselves in the foot
while doing so?

Signature

Michael Wolf

-----

Cthulhu For President.
Why settle for the lesser evil?

remove stopspam to reply

mike gray - 13 May 2004 17:25 GMT
> "Which way do I turn the knob if I'm standing behind it?"

Disassemble the valve and note whether it is threaded right or left.
Charlie Hammond - 13 May 2004 19:36 GMT
The problem is in determining which is right and which is left.
Here is a [20 year old!] proceeur that might help:
(The company name, "***" has been disguised.)

                         *** FIELD APPLICATION NOTE:
                     IDENTIFICATION OF RIGHT AND LEFT HAND

INTRODUCTION

   In technical field work it is often desirable, if not necessary, to
   distinquish between right and left which, to some *** field personnel,
   may present a problem.  Examples are:  components being located on the
   right or left, controls having to be moved to the right or left, etc.
   Persons having difficulties in this regard are occasionally admonished
   to have reference to their right or left hand, respectively; this,
   however, tends to be of little use if the particular person has
   difficulty in identification of his right and left hand.

PURPOSE

   The purpose of this application note is to aid *** field personnel in
   the correct identification of the right and left hand, with the highest
   probability of success and with considerable ease.  Having accomplished
   such identification, the person will be able, by straight analogy, to
   transfer the directional characterization to the item(s) in question.

EQUIPMENT REQUIRED

           Table, qty. 1 (or equivalent)
           Clock, qty. 1
           Indelible marker, any color, qty. 1

PROCEDURE

   Identification of the right and left hand may be accomplished by
   following the procedure given here, in the indicated sequence:

   1. Place the clock on the surface of the table, work-bench, or other
      flat, horizontal furniture or equipment surface with its face toward
      you.

                                    NOTE
           If you have trouble determining which side of the clock is
           the face, refer to "*** Field Application Note: Using
           Clocks and Watches to Tell Time".

  2. With arms parallel, or nearly parallel, place both of your hands
      upon the surface of the table (or work-bench) with the clock between
      them.

                                     NOTE
           It is assumed that the person in question has two hands,
           which is generally the case.  In situations other than the
           one assumed, the procedure given here is not applicable.

   3. Note whether the two thumbs are the two similar digits of the
      respective hands that are in closest relative proximity.  If this is
      the case, step 4 may be omitted.

   4. Counter-rotate the two hands in such a manner as to accomplish the
      criterion of step 3.

                     *  *  *  *  *  WARNING  *  *  *  *  *

           Neither hand should be rotated more than 180 degrees.
           Should this appear required, rotation in the opposite
           direction is indicated, instead, to prevent possible
           injury.

   5. Observe the relative position of each thumb with respect to its
      corresponding hand and with respect to the clock in front of you.

   6. With the indelible marker, mark the hand that has the thumb closest
      to the "9" of the clock with a letter "R", and the hand that has the
      thumb closest to the "3" of the clock with the letter "L".

CONCLUSION

   The hand bearing the "L" mark will be the right hand, and the hand
   bearing the "R" mark will be the left hand.

Signature

     Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USA
         (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
     All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

Larry Anta - 13 May 2004 20:02 GMT
> CONCLUSION
>
>     The hand bearing the "L" mark will be the right hand, and the hand
>     bearing the "R" mark will be the left hand.

Thank you Charlie.  I hope it goes without saying that the marker should not
only be indelible but waterproof.  Also I recommend using clock faces that
are not red since red is the first colour to disappear at depth.
R Benner - 13 May 2004 20:52 GMT
> > CONCLUSION
> >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> only be indelible but waterproof.  Also I recommend using clock faces that
> are not red since red is the first colour to disappear at depth.

I am starting to get a real bad headache. I think I need to tighten up the
foil. Back on the freeway, which is already in progress.....
Dillon Pyron - 13 May 2004 21:01 GMT
>CONCLUSION
>
>    The hand bearing the "L" mark will be the right hand, and the hand
>    bearing the "R" mark will be the left hand.

That's a classic.  Just like the Failed Unibus Address Register.

And how many people have been scalded in Mexico by turning the faucet
labled "C" (calienta)?
Signature

dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

Michael Ross - 14 May 2004 00:17 GMT
>>CONCLUSION
>>
>>    The hand bearing the "L" mark will be the right hand, and the hand
>>    bearing the "R" mark will be the left hand.
>
>That's a classic.  Just like the Failed Unibus Address Register.

Flaming nora!

I thought for a second my newsreader had thrown a fit and was giving
me posts from alt.sys.pdp11...

Mike
(who is going to forward Mr. Hammonds post to She Who Must Be Obeyed,
and go hide for the required interval)
(SWMBO occasional has... left-right 'issues'...)
http://www.corestore.org

'As I walk along these shores
I am the history within'
Dillon Pyron - 14 May 2004 04:42 GMT
>>>CONCLUSION
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>I thought for a second my newsreader had thrown a fit and was giving
>me posts from alt.sys.pdp11...

All right then.. Does anyone have a copy of the infamous "see figure
one" article.  From around 1980-84, I think.

>Mike
>(who is going to forward Mr. Hammonds post to She Who Must Be Obeyed,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>'As I walk along these shores
>I am the history within'

Signature

dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

Charlie Hammond - 14 May 2004 16:17 GMT
>All right then.. Does anyone have a copy of the infamous "see figure
>one" article.  From around 1980-84, I think.

The answer is, "Yes."
Here it is:

(Oh, yes.  For those who don't know: "SPR" stands for Software Problem Report".
And some names have been changed to protect the inocent -- or not so inocent.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                               NEW  www  STANDARD;  ONE
                               SPR RESPONSE DOES IT ALL

Since this is a general problem, we are indebted to xxx for having
adopted a standard SPR response from yyyy-20.  This standard response
is being considered for zzz systems as well.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                       xxx Version 3

Please stop submitting SPR's.  This is our system.  We designed it,
we built it, and we use it more than you do.  If there are some features
you think might be missing, if the system isn't as effective as you think
it could be, TOUGH!    Give it back, we don't need you.  See figure 1.

               ---------------------------------
               !               _               !
               !              { }              !
               !              | |              !
               !              | |              !
               !           .-.! !.-.           !
               !         .-!  ! !  !.-.        !
               !         ! !       !  ;        !
               !         \           ;         !
               !          \         ;          !
               !           !       :           !
               !           !       |           !
               !           |       |           !
               !                               !
               !_______________________________!
                           Figure 1.

Forget about your silly problem, let's take a look at some of the features
of the xxx operating system.

1)  Options.  We've got lots of them.  So many in fact, that you need two
strong people to carry the documentation around.  So many that it will be
a cold day in hell before half of them are used.  So many that you are
probably not going to do your work right anyway.   However,  the number of
options isn't all that important, because we picked some interesting values
for the options and called them ...

2)  Defaults.  We put a lot of thought into our defaults.  We like them.
If we didn't, we would have made something else be the default.  So keep
your cotton-picking hands off our defaults.  Don't touch.  Consider them
mandatory.  "Mandatory defaults" has a nice ring to it.  Change them and
your system crashes, TOUGH!  See figure 1.

3)  Language Processors.  They work just fine.  They take in source, and
often produce object files as a reward for your efforts.  You don't
like the code?  Too bad!  You can even try to call operating system services
from them.  For any that you can't, use the assembler like we do.
We spoke to the language processor developers about this, they think a lot
like we do, they said "See figure 1".

4)  Debuggers.  We've got debuggers, one we support and one we use.  You
shouldn't make mistakes anyway, it is a waste of time.  We don't want to
hear anything about debuggers, we're not interested,  See figure 1.

5)  Error Logging.  Ignore it.  Why give yourself an ulcer?  You don't
want to give us the machine to get the problem fixed and we probably
can't do it anyway.  Oh, and if something breaks between 17:00 and 18:00 or
9:30 and 10:30 or 11:30 and 13:30 or 14:30 and 15:30 don't waste your
time calling us, we're out.  See figure 1.

6)  Command Language.  We designed it ourselves, it's perfect.  We like
it so much we put our name on it, ***- *******'s Command Language.  In
fact we're so happy with it, we designed it once for each of our operating
systems.  We even try to keep it the same from release to release, sometimes
we blow it though,  See figure 1.

7)  Real Time Performance.   We got it.   Who else could have done
such a good job?  So the system seems sluggish with all those priority 18
processes, no problem, just make them priority 1.  Anyway, realtime isn't
important anymore like it used to be.  We changed our groups name to get
rid of the word realtime,  we told all our realtime users to see figure 1
a long time ago.

In conclusion, stuff your SPR.  Love xxx or leave it, but don't complain.

                               -adapted from yyyy-20

Mon 30-Aug-1982 15:51 TLZ

--
     Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USA
         (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
     All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.
Dillon Pyron - 15 May 2004 11:02 GMT
>>All right then.. Does anyone have a copy of the infamous "see figure
>>one" article.  From around 1980-84, I think.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>                        xxx Version 3

I was about to protest that it was around 2.6.  But then I remembered
where and when I first saw it, and knew it was 3.2.

Thanks, Charlie,   I'll put it with my V2 copy of the Internals
manual, autographed by Cutler and Goldstein.

Signature

dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

Kimber - 15 May 2004 17:21 GMT
"Michael Ross" <mike@corestore.org> wrote in message

> Flaming nora!

Hahahah!  You said Flaming Nora!!!!  That cracks me up every time I hear or
read it!!!!

Kimber
Chris Guynn - 13 May 2004 22:48 GMT
> CONCLUSION
>
>     The hand bearing the "L" mark will be the right hand, and the hand
>     bearing the "R" mark will be the left hand.

I tried this, but all I see is a flashing 12:00... where are the 9 and 3?
:-)
mike gray - 14 May 2004 04:55 GMT
> The problem is in determining which is right and which is left.
> Here is a [20 year old!] proceeur that might help:
> (The company name, "***" has been disguised.)

(snip)

Now that's what I call proper training!
FreeFloat - 15 May 2004 03:06 GMT
> "Which way do I turn the knob if I'm standing behind it?"
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> turning "spatially" and whether there are many male scuba divers who do so
> "verbally."

I can visualize things spatially - in fact in high school I scored off the
charts in spatial perception (about the only thing I *did* score well in).
I can turn a knob "open" or "closed" regardless of where I am in reference
to it:  in front of it, behind it, hovering upside down over it; I can even
do so using a mirror.  I launch my boat using my mirrors only to backup - I
never seem to have difficulty deciding which way to turn the wheel to make
the hitch swing the way I want, or bring the stern end of the boat where I
want it.  Today I did a three point turn with the boat on trailer to get out
of the LDS's parking lot.

Oh yeah I'm female too for the record.
Geoff - 15 May 2004 05:36 GMT
>I can visualize things spatially - in fact in high school I scored off the
>charts in spatial perception (about the only thing I *did* score well in).
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Oh yeah I'm female too for the record.

Just a few questions.

Do you dive often?

What do you use to tow the boat?

Are you married?  Do you want to be?

Send picture of boat and trailer.

:)
FreeFloat - 16 May 2004 07:40 GMT
> Just a few questions.
>
> Do you dive often?

Yup.

> What do you use to tow the boat?

My truck, of course

> Are you married?  Do you want to be?

Nope.  Maybe.

> Send picture of boat and trailer.

Heh.

> :)
 
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