Scuba Forum / General / May 2004
Sea and Sea MX-10 DID NOT honor warranty on manufacturing defect
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Reef Fish - 01 May 2004 03:48 GMT I am pleased to bring my case against Sea and Sea to a happy closure, and publicly thank Matt Endo for his role as the go-between between myself and Yamaguchi-san, President of Sea & Sea, as well as Mr. Yamaguchi himself and the rep of a new repair/service center.
I had written the following, in private email to Matt, today:
RF> When I received this email of yours, I had suspected some kind of RF> bureaucratic run-around, but I was extremely pleased and surprised RF> upon phoning Mr. Dan Blodget to learn that he was most sincere RF> and helpful, and in just one short phone conversation, he was ready RF> to send me a "replacement" (nearly new) MX-10 camera immediately.
Apparently the former USA "warranty and repair" center (in 2002) had similar problems and complaints, and had been replaced by the present one(s), including the one run by Mr. Dan Blodget.
The prompt resolution was beyond my expectation. I hope the present MX-10 will serve me as well as the (stolen) one I had from 1992 to 2001.
I do not know if the former technician who refused to honor the warranty had followed my instruction:
RF> I told him to smash the camera with the biggest HAMMER he could RF> find, and not bother to mail me back that POS.
But I am happy to get the replacement now, with the same 1-year warranty as a new one.
My thanks to all.
-- Bob.
From: Reef Fish (Large_Nassau_Grouper@Yahoo.com) Subject: Sea and Sea MX-10 DID NOT honor warranty on manufacturing defect Newsgroups: rec.scuba.equipment, rec.scuba, uk.rec.scuba, aus.sport.scuba, rec.photo.digital Date: 2004-02-09 10:18:59 PST matt@gol.com (Matthew Endo) wrote in message news:<1g8up0d.1sgod70qx8veoN@yahoobb219000172008.bbtec.net>...
> > Sea and Sea Japan is alive and well, I'll see Mr. Yamaguchi, the > > present, today at the Diving Festival in Tokyo. > > Sorry, to correct my previous post, I meant President. But Sea & Sea's UW camera is not alive nor well -- specifically, my latest MX-10 (2002) which lasted all of ONE liveaboard dive trip, within 60 days of the purchase, where MOISTURE (no water leak, mind you) resulted in damage that required (according to the authorized service center in the USA) $270 USD to repair, which cost about the same or more than buying a new one. It was obviously a MANUFACTURING defect.
I've used an MX-10 from 1992 to 2001 when the camera was stolen with the rest of my luggage -- so it wasn't exactly a case of a newbie user of the MX-10 not knowing how to grease the seal or take care of the camera properly.
All this was carefully explained to the "technician" at the service center, to no avail.
So, I told him to smash the camera with the biggest HAMMER he could find, and not bother to mail me back that POS.
I don't know if he followed my instructions, but I did not get the camera back.
I now have a nearly new (used one week, the same week of the MX-10) strobe that I'll sell for $20 (or offer) postage paid by purchaser.
Matt, you know me.
Send a copy of this to Mr. Yamaguchi. Perhaps he SHOULD know how his "technician" in the USA was handling his customers and his manufacturing defects.
Scott - 01 May 2004 03:56 GMT Bravo.
Recognition appropriately noted.
Matthew Endo is a square shooter.
> I am pleased to bring my case against Sea and Sea to a happy closure, > and publicly thank Matt Endo for his role as the go-between between [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > his "technician" in the USA was handling his customers and his > manufacturing defects. Matthew Endo - 03 May 2004 07:22 GMT > Matthew Endo is a square shooter. Thanks, Scott.
Feesh is one noisy customer (and should be). However, in this case for whatever reason, his case was not presented to Japan; the Sea and Sea USA tech did not contact S&S Japan to get a warranty replacement authorization.
It just happens that I know Mr. Yamaguchi who is the President of Sea and Sea Japan and he was instrumental in resolving the issue promptly.
I know that Sea and Sea is very concerned about the reputation of their products and they stand behind them.
Thanks very much to Dan Blodget, the owner of Sub Aquatic Camera repair Co. who is the new repair center for Sea and Sea in the U.S.
 Signature Matt matt@gol.com
Dennis \(Icarus\) - 03 May 2004 11:32 GMT > > Matthew Endo is a square shooter. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > It just happens that I know Mr. Yamaguchi who is the President of Sea > and Sea Japan and he was instrumental in resolving the issue promptly. Very good - I went ahead & changed the subject.
> I know that Sea and Sea is very concerned about the reputation of their > products and they stand behind them. Glad to hear it. I've a Motor Marne II ex -very nice!
> Thanks very much to Dan Blodget, the owner of Sub Aquatic Camera repair > Co. who is the new repair center for Sea and Sea in the U.S. Dennis
Reef Fish - 03 May 2004 18:59 GMT Dennis, thanks for posting this follow-up in the new subject. I kept the old subject in my preceding posts for SOLE reason that anyone who read the "Did NOT honor" THREAD would have realized that it had been satisfctorily resolved, for the record.
> > > Matthew Endo is a square shooter. > > > > Thanks, Scott. > > > > Feesh is one noisy customer (and should be). I take exception to the "noisy customer" label, though it was qualified by the "(and should be)". I did not even bother to complain in rec.scuba until I saw your (Matt Endo) post about how well Sea & Sea was and that you were meeting its President Yamaguchi.
So I took the opportunity (two years after the incident) to suggest that you let Mr. Yamaguchi know what was happening to his company in the USA, which did NOT honor the warranty on an MX-10 I purchased.
> > However, in this case for > > whatever reason, his case was not presented to Japan; the Sea and Sea > > USA tech did not contact S&S Japan to get a warranty replacement > > authorization. Let's get THIS record straight. In Matt's email to me, he included Dan Blodget's email, in which Dan wrote:
DB> Hi, I recieved an e-mail from Japan and I have been asked to DB> help you out with your MX-10 concern,
I had assumed the e-mail from Japan was referring to an e-mail from either Yamaguchi or his Sea & Sea company representative.
It's now apparent that he was referring to YOUR (Matt Endo's) email.
> > It just happens that I know Mr. Yamaguchi who is the President of Sea > > and Sea Japan and he was instrumental in resolving the issue promptly. I think now that we got this far, you should perhaps let us know HOW Mr. Yamaguchi was instrumental in resolving the issue.
It was actually NOT resolved "promptly", though I used that word myself as a compliment of "two months" as prompt. In previous emails to Matt I had included very explicit descriptions including photo copies and transcripts of my letter to Sea & Sea, the purchase date, price, registered letter of warranty registration, etc., etc., and every possible relevant detail, to have Matt come back and ask for more.
That was why I said, in my post, and my email to Matt,
RF> When I received this email of yours, I had suspected some kind of RF> bureaucratic run-around, but I was extremely pleased and surprised RF> upon phoning Mr. Dan Blodget
So, if Dan did not get his info or directives from Mr. Yamaguchi or his office, then he must have taken it upon HIMSELF to "help out" as a friend of YOURS and as the new Service Center manager.
Matt> > However, in this case for Matt> > whatever reason, his case was not presented to Japan
Matt, I thought you HAD, or had intended to, present my case, not only to Japan, but to Mr. Yamaguchi himself!
I was very pleased to have been promised a "re-conditioned" unit by Dan, but at the same time somewhat surprised that Yamaguchi would have suggested anything other than a NEW replacement.
Some years ago, I had two flooded SataLite UW lights from Ikelite, flooded after the warranty period had expired. I thought it was my fault that I had taken the lights to 200 fsw, perhaps deeper than warranted. Ike himself immediately gave me two BRAND NEW replacement, without me asking for any, but only inquired about the cost of repairing them.
In another similar situatio, I had purchase a ScubaPro Sonar unit that didn't work well. In a rec.scuba discussion about the use of hand-sonar for find boats and/or objects, I merely expressed the opinion that I did not have much success with it and my unit had been shelved. That was two or three YEARS after the Warranty had already expired. But someone in the company read my post, and immediately offered me a new Sonar II (the much more expensive and newer unit) without any cost to me.
THOSE are my only "replacement" experiences on scuba equipment, both AFTER the warranty had expired, WITHOUT me asking for any replacemnt!
As for Sea & Sea, I was unjustly REFUSED warranty coverage, haveing used the camera on ONE trip, two MONTHs after purchase, when the warranty was for 1 year.
It was now rectified, perhaps with less "class" than either of the other two reputable companies Ikelite and Scubapro.
This is NOT a complaint. But since I was accused of being "noisy" and even though I had thanked everyone publicly (without any of the foregoing less-than-glowing details, I thought, for the record, that such should be expressed, given Matt's present post.
In particular, now it seems to me that Mr. Yamaguchi did not really play any role other than a name that had been thrown around. Am I correct or not correct in this seemingless inevitable conclusion?
Matt> > However, in this case for whatever reason, Matt> > his <Reef Fish, I presume> case was not presented to Japan
> Very good - I went ahead & changed the subject. > > > I know that Sea and Sea is very concerned about the reputation of their > > products and they stand behind them. > > Glad to hear it. I've a Motor Marne II ex -very nice! After my public post of thanks to all (unbeknownst to Matt at the time), I received an email reply from Matt on my personal thanks to HIM, suggesting that I should post something that are MUCH more extravagant than Sea & Sea deserved, beyond what I had already posted.
So, I wrote this to Matt in my reply:
RF> I already posted a follow-up BEFORE I received either of your RF> emails. I believe I gave the proper credits and acknowledgments, RF> though not as your wording above might have suggested.
RF> Sorry. I am a simple soul who minced no words and give no RF> extravagent praise, no more than I thought was appropriate.
RF> Thanks again. I am glad the case is now closed.
I hope the case is closed now, given the additional details pertinent to it.
I am a "noisy customer"?
I might have expected that remark from Mike Cochran <G>, but not from anyone else, even if it was intended NOT as a complaint, nor meant in a derogatory way.
In ALL cases of anything I post, I am a "deadly accurate" customer in FACTUAL details. I give credit where credit is due, and I am not hesitant to respond/clarify/elaborate to what I consider to be either inaccurate or inapproprite follow-up on factual matters.
That's the reason for this detailed follow-up.
> > Thanks very much to Dan Blodget, the owner of Sub Aquatic Camera repair > > Co. who is the new repair center for Sea and Sea in the U.S. Given the NEW information by Matt in his post, I should AMPLIFY his thanks and MINE to Dan Blodget -- who I think took several things into his own hands (the nearly-new replacement, not charging me for the postage, etc.) that would hardly be a "class act" if it had been directed by the Sea & Sea President Yamaguchi.
My thanks to Matt Endo remain the same. He was instrumental in bringing my case of complaint to whomever that led to the resolution.
(Matt did say it took him a long time to find the DIRECT mailing address to Mr. Yamaguchi, not wanting his e-mail/letter to get lost in the public letter piles; but I am not sure now if Yamaguchi EVER got the facts I provided, or whether HE personally played any role in this replacement act or terms), in view of this:
Matt> > However, in this case for whatever reason, Matt> > his <Reef Fish, I presume> case was not presented to Japan
-- Bob.
Matthew Endo - 03 May 2004 22:35 GMT > > > Feesh is one noisy customer (and should be). > > I take exception to the "noisy customer" label, though it was > qualified by the "(and should be)". Well, Feesh, you would, but I still reserve the right to tease you so! The reason why companies get better is by having customers who demand world class service. See my explanation below.
> DB> Hi, I recieved an e-mail from Japan and I have been asked to > DB> help you out with your MX-10 concern, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > It's now apparent that he was referring to YOUR (Matt Endo's) email. The e-mail was from Mr. Yamaguchi. See below for further comment.
> > > It just happens that I know Mr. Yamaguchi who is the President of Sea > > > and Sea Japan and he was instrumental in resolving the issue promptly. > > I think now that we got this far, you should perhaps let us know HOW > Mr. Yamaguchi was instrumental in resolving the issue. To clarify, Mr. Yamaguchi personally directed the resolution of your case.
> It was actually NOT resolved "promptly", though I used that word myself > as a compliment of "two months" as prompt. In previous emails to Matt > I had included very explicit descriptions including photo copies and > transcripts of my letter to Sea & Sea, the purchase date, price, > registered letter of warranty registration, etc., etc., and every > possible relevant detail, to have Matt come back and ask for more. To give the readers of this thread more information, the reason for the two months was my editing of Bob's original e-mail to myself as well as a request for the text of the letter. Of course, Bob was on yet another dive trip causing a few weeks delay, but after getting the original text, I needed to find Mr. Yamaguchi's personal e-mail address which caused an additional delay on my part. I must say that Mr. Yamaguchi responded the very next day after I had collected all the information and sent it to him.
> Matt> > However, in this case for > Matt> > whatever reason, his case was not presented to Japan Yes, I mean that two years ago, your case should have been presented to Japan by the US service tech.
> I was very pleased to have been promised a "re-conditioned" unit by > Dan, but at the same time somewhat surprised that Yamaguchi would > have suggested anything other than a NEW replacement. I surmise that probably your camera and the records were no longer available from the previous Sea and Sea USA organization, being dissolved some time ago. So, probably they felt the best way was to give you a reconditioned unit which Dan already had in stock. Just my guess/opinion.
> Some years ago, I had two flooded SataLite UW lights from Ikelite, > flooded after the warranty period had expired. I thought it was > my fault that I had taken the lights to 200 fsw, perhaps deeper > than warranted. Ike himself immediately gave me two BRAND NEW > replacement, without me asking for any, but only inquired about > the cost of repairing them. I didn't want to bring Ike up because I sell Ikelite products. I can only repeat my biased opinion that his service is the best, bar none.
> I am a "noisy customer"? Uh oh, I knew I would get flamed for that remark!
> I might have expected that remark from Mike Cochran <G>, but not from > anyone else, even if it was intended NOT as a complaint, nor meant > in a derogatory way. Nope, Feesh, didn't mean it to be derogatory in any way. The noisy customer speaks for the other 5 or 10 silent ones. The problem is that the silent ones go away and are no longer customers, while the "noisy" one gets things resolved and continues to be a customer. You're playing the "consumer's advocate" of sorts.
> In ALL cases of anything I post, I am a "deadly accurate" customer > in FACTUAL details. I give credit where credit is due, and I am > not hesitant to respond/clarify/elaborate to what I consider to be > either inaccurate or inapproprite follow-up on factual matters. > > That's the reason for this detailed follow-up. Thanks for the followup!
 Signature Matt matt@gol.com
Reef Fish - 04 May 2004 05:35 GMT Matt,
I am very glad that you CLARIFIED the issue centered around your remark regarding the PRESENT case:
> > Matt> > However, in this case for > > Matt> > whatever reason, his case was not presented to Japan > > Yes, I mean that two years ago, your case should have been presented to > Japan by the US service tech. The English language is often imprecise and ambiguous, as we both well know, being non-English speaking natives. :-) In this case, had you said
However, in this case for whatever reason, his case was not presented to Japan two years ago
it would have eliminated ALL ambiguities wouldn't it, especially in the light of what transpired in "this case" THIS year?
> > DB> Hi, I recieved an e-mail from Japan and I have been asked to > > DB> help you out with your MX-10 concern,
> The e-mail was from Mr. Yamaguchi. See below for further comment.
> To clarify, Mr. Yamaguchi personally directed the resolution of your > case. Glad to see this clarified. Thanks. I restore my original thanks to Yamaguchi-san.
> > It was actually NOT resolved "promptly", though I used that word myself > > as a compliment of "two months" as prompt. In previous emails to Matt [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > two months was my editing of Bob's original e-mail to myself as well as > a request for the text of the letter. True. Matt was correct and proper to edit out my reference to "POS" (Piece Of Sh*t) :-) in reference to MX-10, and other expressions of mine that may offend Mr. Yamaguchi, if Matt had quoted my post or letter verbatim to Mr. Yamaguchi.
It is also true that while I had sent Matt a .jpg of the original letter to Sea&Sea, registration, and other items, the text of the letter was not completely legible, so I typed the text of the letter for Matt in my email, not knowing Matt's fax address.
> Of course, Bob was on yet another dive trip causing a few weeks > delay, but after getting the original text, A tad inaccurate. :-)
Yes, I was on several trips (Cozumel, Caribbean cruise, Tahitian cruise, Singapore/Bali) AFTER I provided Matt the full details on Feb 18, and none of those trips caused any delay on my part.
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:18:05 -0500 To: Matthew Endo <matt@gol.com>
I am home now. Here's the follow-up on our rec.scuba posts about my MX-10.
The attachment (resolution not good) contains
1. Record of registered letter of 6/13/2002 sent to Sea&Sea, together with the camera, and receipt of purchase in February. Registered letter RB221225353 US (JUN 13 2002)
2. The letter (which should be in Sea&Sea's file on the camera) contain these essential facts:
a. The camera (with receipt) was purchased on 2/12/2002. b. Serial no. of camera: SN 940557325
< snip >
In spite of my two weeks in Singapore/Bali, there was no delay (same day, not "a few weeks") in providing the text of the letter, which Matt requested on April 10:
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 00:59:50 -0400 RF > At 12:23 PM 4/10/2004 +0900, you wrote: Matt> OK, please send the text of the letter RF > Here's the transcript of the letter (in the photo):
> I needed to find Mr. Yamaguchi's personal e-mail address which > caused an additional delay on my part. That's 100% accurate! But that was AFTER April 10. :-)
> I must say that Mr. Yamaguchi responded the very next day after > I had collected all the information and sent it to him. That speaks well of Mr. Yamaguchi. Glad you clarified it.
> > I was very pleased to have been promised a "re-conditioned" unit by > > Dan, but at the same time somewhat surprised that Yamaguchi would [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > available from the previous Sea and Sea USA organization, being > dissolved some time ago. That I did not realize, since I had not been in touch with Sea & Sea USA since I told the technician to smash my camera in 2002. :) What you surmised is probably accurate, though it would seem the previous Sea & Sea's records should be kept for at least the most recent couple of years, if for nothing else but repairs and warranty records.
> So, probably they felt the best way was to > give you a reconditioned unit which Dan already had in stock. > Just my guess/opinion. Good guess and well-founded opinion. But Mr. Yamaguchi surely COULD have offered me a NEW replacement since I used the old one only once, on one one-week trip, and I had to purchase a much more expensive new POS (tha's not a Sea & Sea product). :-)
> > Some years ago, I had two flooded SataLite UW lights from Ikelite, > > flooded after the warranty period had expired. I thought it was [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I didn't want to bring Ike up because I sell Ikelite products. I can > only repeat my biased opinion that his service is the best, bar none. I have no relation whatsoever with Ikelite other than having been a satisfied customer of several of its products. I know many people who share OUR opinion that Ike's service is the best, BEYOND what's to be expected of the best, but that doesn't mean any of us is "biased" in any negative sense of the word "biased".
> > I am a "noisy customer"? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > one gets things resolved and continues to be a customer. You're playing > the "consumer's advocate" of sorts. Yes. I am a "consumer's advocate" of sorts. I get flamed for being so, as all advocates do, one time or another, but I get flamed EVERY time. :-)
I get flamed for months for exposing Cochran's defective computer. I get flamed by Jason O'Rourke, the perennial "noise maker" in rec.scuba who never had anything but NOISE to contribute, when I provided timely and SERIOUS information about the Uwatec Aladin Air-X computer about the company's concealment of defect for SEVEN long years, and the ongoing lawsuits from injury!
Now you perhaps understand better why I didn't like your "noisy customer" characterization, even though you meant well.
> > In ALL cases of anything I post, I am a "deadly accurate" customer > > in FACTUAL details. I give credit where credit is due, and I am [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thanks for the followup! Thanks for your followup to my followup!
-- Bob.
Reef Fish - 03 May 2004 19:30 GMT > > > Matthew Endo is a square shooter. But not as straight a shooter as I had thought.
> > Thanks, Scott. > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > It just happens that I know Mr. Yamaguchi who is the President of Sea > > and Sea Japan and he was instrumental in resolving the issue promptly. See my preceding post giving VERY explicit detailed information, in both the words of Matt Endo and Dan Blodget, which was MY understanding of what transpired, but which is at the same time at odds with what Matt described now.
-- Bob.
Matthew Endo - 03 May 2004 22:35 GMT > > > > Matthew Endo is a square shooter. > > But not as straight a shooter as I had thought. Yeah, I might be square, I'm sure a shooter, but sometimes can't shoot straight!
 Signature Matt matt@gol.com
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