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Scuba Forum / General / April 2004Shark repellent
Back in the days of the Groupe de Recherches Sous-Marine, around 1950, Cousteau talked about diving with cupric acetate ("fly-tox") shark repellent tablets tied to his ankles. Anyone know what this stuff is, where it came from, and why it was thought to repel sharks? > Back in the days of the Groupe de Recherches Sous-Marine, around 1950, > Cousteau talked about diving with cupric acetate ("fly-tox") shark > repellent tablets tied to his ankles. > > Anyone know what this stuff is, where it came from, and why it was > thought to repel sharks? http://www.nsc.org/library/chemical/cupric_a.htm I know it from old ammunition, particularly shaped charges. > Back in the days of the Groupe de Recherches Sous-Marine, around 1950, > Cousteau talked about diving with cupric acetate ("fly-tox") shark > repellent tablets tied to his ankles. > > Anyone know what this stuff is, where it came from, and why it was > thought to repel sharks? Just a WAG, but copper has long been a key ingrediant in anti fouling bottom paint. The stuff on the bottom of my boat right now is roughly 70% copper. Copper, at least in whatever compound they use in paints is a biocide. I presume sharks would find it highly unpleasant as well, but it's just a guess. Hmmm, copper in salt water . . . might be an electrical thing too. Lee >> Back in the days of the Groupe de Recherches Sous-Marine, around 1950, >> Cousteau talked about diving with cupric acetate ("fly-tox") shark [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Lee Lee, it was tin that was banned, wasn't it? Copper's still okay?  Signaturedillon When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark and the horse's name was Bob. #On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:29:35 GMT, "Lee Bell" #<leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote: # #>"mike gray" wrote #> #>> Back in the days of the Groupe de Recherches Sous-Marine, around 1950, #>> Cousteau talked about diving with cupric acetate ("fly-tox") shark #>> repellent tablets tied to his ankles. #>> #>> Anyone know what this stuff is, where it came from, and why it was #>> thought to repel sharks? #> #>Just a WAG, but copper has long been a key ingrediant in anti fouling bottom #>paint. The stuff on the bottom of my boat right now is roughly 70% copper. #>Copper, at least in whatever compound they use in paints is a biocide. I #>presume sharks would find it highly unpleasant as well, but it's just a #>guess. Hmmm, copper in salt water . . . might be an electrical thing too. #> #>Lee #> # #Lee, it was tin that was banned, wasn't it? Copper's still okay? Tributyltin has been banned except for aluminum boats over a certain size - approximately 150 ft, as I recall. You can also use it on small areas like outdrives and outboard motors. There is effort by envrionmentalists to have copper banned as well. In areas with very high boat density, i.e., marinas, the amount of copper in the water is rather unhealthy. The problem is that there isn't a decent alternative right at the moment. > >> Back in the days of the Groupe de Recherches Sous-Marine, around 1950, > >> Cousteau talked about diving with cupric acetate ("fly-tox") shark [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Lee, it was tin that was banned, wasn't it? Copper's still okay? Copper is still OK for sure. Something was banned, but it was before I kept a boat in the water, sometime before 1991. I think tin is banned, but something that used to be restricted to professional application on the largest of boats, is once again available to people who only appear wealthy. Lee #"mike gray" wrote # #> Back in the days of the Groupe de Recherches Sous-Marine, around 1950, #> Cousteau talked about diving with cupric acetate ("fly-tox") shark #> repellent tablets tied to his ankles. #> #> Anyone know what this stuff is, where it came from, and why it was #> thought to repel sharks? # #Just a WAG, but copper has long been a key ingrediant in anti fouling bottom #paint. The stuff on the bottom of my boat right now is roughly 70% copper. #Copper, at least in whatever compound they use in paints is a biocide. I #presume sharks would find it highly unpleasant as well, but it's just a #guess. Hmmm, copper in salt water . . . might be an electrical thing too. # #Lee # # "might be an electrical thing too" That may well be a very astute observation. As I recall, sharks do sense electrical fields - the heartbeats and nerve impulses of a fish in flight - and use this to find prey. If copper ions in salt water interfered with electric fields, then that may well be what sharks don't like about copper. Where's a good marine bugologist when you need one? Alan > <snip> > >Hmmm, copper in salt water . . . might be an electrical thing too. > >Lee > Nope. Copper (and most copper salts) are highly toxic to most living things. Small amounts are required by some enzymes in your body, such as those responsible for iron processing and energy production. However, large amounts of copper (or copper in biounavailable forms) are toxic. Excess copper builds up in the liver. This can lead to liver damage, however a more common problem is the release of this excess copper from the liver. This copper can cause haemolytic anaemia (rupture of red blood cells, resulting in anaemia), kidney damage, and death. Since it takes time to work I doubt it would be a good shark repellent. Bryan > >Hmmm, copper in salt water . . . might be an electrical thing too. > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > (rupture of red blood cells, resulting in anaemia), kidney damage, and > death. Now that's creative editing. You snipped the portion where I mentioned copper is a biocide just so you could tell me I was wrong about the electrical properties because copper is a biocide. > Since it takes time to work I doubt it would be a good shark repellent. Doesn't matter what you and I think today. The question was why people thought that way in the past. Lee >> >Hmmm, copper in salt water . . . might be an electrical thing too. >> > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Doesn't matter what you and I think today. The question was why people > thought that way in the past. Waiting for an attacking shark to get liver disease and die does not seem too efficient. But since posting this I have picked up a couple things. Cousteau apparently got his cupric acetate idea from a US airman who told him it was being considered for downed pilots. (Was it ever used by USAF?) And in "Silent World", Cousteau describes large sharks swimming lazily and unconcerned through the cloud of cupric acetate. Not a real good ad for its repellent powers. > Waiting for an attacking shark to get liver disease and die does not > seem too efficient. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > and unconcerned through the cloud of cupric acetate. Not a real good > ad for its repellent powers. I just returned from Washington, where I toured the Air & Space museum. I remember seeing a "shark repellent pack" in the emergency kit carried by the Apollo astronauts, but I don't know what's in it. Maybe some one else does. . . Bryan >> Waiting for an attacking shark to get liver disease and die does not >> seem too efficient. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Bryan Not sure exactly what. At one time, there was a theory that some sort of alchohol based substance would work. They found that, while it did seem to repel sharks, you had to constantly add it to the water. Then there were the dyes, intended to obscure the swimmer. Good idea, same problem. Signaturedillon When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark and the horse's name was Bob. >Now that's creative editing. You snipped the portion where I mentioned >copper is a biocide just so you could tell me I was wrong about the >electrical properties because copper is a biocide. > Wasn't my intent - just wanted to point out how Cu toxicity works. I think your looking for insults where none was intended. . . Bryan > >Now that's creative editing. You snipped the portion where I mentioned > >copper is a biocide just so you could tell me I was wrong about the > >electrical properties because copper is a biocide. > > > Wasn't my intent - just wanted to point out how Cu toxicity works. I > think your looking for insults where none was intended. . . I wasn't insulted, I was amused. My bad for leaving out the smiley. Lee >> >Now that's creative editing. You snipped the portion where I mentioned >> >copper is a biocide just so you could tell me I was wrong about the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Lee Umm, according to another thread, smileys are not required. Signaturedillon When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark and the horse's name was Bob. > Umm, according to another thread, smileys are not required. The word of God is written on your heart; Proceed. Or, as Tom Waitts put it; "But'cha know there aint no Devil, Thas' jus God when he's drunk." > >> >Now that's creative editing. You snipped the portion where I mentioned > >> >copper is a biocide just so you could tell me I was wrong about the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Umm, according to another thread, smileys are not required. If you look further, you'll note that I do not share that position. 8^) Lee #Back in the days of the Groupe de Recherches Sous-Marine, around 1950, #Cousteau talked about diving with cupric acetate ("fly-tox") shark #repellent tablets tied to his ankles. # #Anyone know what this stuff is, where it came from, and why it was #thought to repel sharks? # I remember reading a story once where supposedly the Navy was looking for a working shark repellant, and a fisherman mentioned that if he left a dead shark or dead fish (I can't remember for sure which one, and I'm on the road this week and can't check the book) hanging on the side of the boat for a few days, the sharks wouldn't come near it. According to the story, the Navy started doing some chemical analysis on rotting shark flesh (yum!) and isolated cupric acetate as the "active ingredient." I have no idea if the story is valid or not, but it sounds plausable. Alan
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