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Scuba Forum / General / April 2004Water Temps
What's "generally" recognized as warm enough water temperature where a wetsuit isn't required and a bathing suit is enough. I realize that there are quite a few variables but I'd like to get a "general" idea. Several years ago I went to about 100 ft. in the Cayman Islands in a bathing suit and it was getting too cool but we were fine at around 50 ft.. Thanks, Sy  SignaturePlease post and reply to sytech@yahoo.com > What's "generally" recognized as warm enough water temperature where a > wetsuit isn't required and a bathing suit is enough. There is no such general recognition. The body can tolerate indefinite immersion in something a bit less than 98.6 F due to heat created by normal metabolism. The catch is that (1) metabolic rates differ, and (2) insulation levels (i.e. fat) differ. The other factor is time. At anything less than that ideal "something a bit less than 98.6 F" temperature, eventually everyone will get cold. >What's "generally" recognized as warm enough water temperature where a >wetsuit isn't required and a bathing suit is enough. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Cayman Islands in a bathing suit and it was getting too cool but we >were fine at around 50 ft.. In addition to Greg's comments, there's also the experience level of the diver. More experienced divers don't expend nearly as much energy as newbies, so they tend to get cold faster. It's not uncommon to see instructors wearing full wetsuits in the tropics, even with water temperatures in the 80s.. Alan > >What's "generally" recognized as warm enough water temperature where a > >wetsuit isn't required and a bathing suit is enough. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > instructors wearing full wetsuits in the tropics, even with water > temperatures in the 80s.. Isn't that just as likely because they are doing many more dives, day after day than those they are teaching? >>What's "generally" recognized as warm enough water temperature where a >>wetsuit isn't required and a bathing suit is enough. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Alan The other reason the instructors wetsuits is cumulative diving combined with both Alan's and Greg's comments. The more in the water the cooler your body starts off at - in a given day. <sytech@yahoo.com> left this mess on Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:49:06 GMT for The Way to clean up: >What's "generally" recognized as warm enough water temperature where a >wetsuit isn't required and a bathing suit is enough. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Cayman Islands in a bathing suit and it was getting too cool but we >were fine at around 50 ft.. Anything over 80 and I'm in a speedo. I might even do it at 75 if it's one tank only and it's really hot topside Tao te Carl "It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003 (Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-a.s question here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif > Anything over 80 and I'm in a speedo. I might even do it at 75 if it's one tank > only and it's really hot topside We used to dive the caves in Florida (72F) without a wetsuits... But then again, after hiking through the woods with a set of doubles in 95-100F weather, the 72F water felt really good... > > Anything over 80 and I'm in a speedo. I might even do it at 75 if it's one > tank [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > again, after hiking through the woods with a set of doubles in 95-100F > weather, the 72F water felt really good... And anyone who'd be crazy enough to do that when there's plenty of good boat diving on the east coast is crazy enough to dive naked in such cold water. > And anyone who'd be crazy enough to do that when there's plenty of good boat > diving on the east coast is crazy enough to dive naked in such cold water. Boat diving would have cost money... This was around 1981 and I was in the Navy... The Navy did not pay very well back then... I probably make more in one day now that I did in a whole month back then... Hiking a mile through the forest / jungle with doubles didn't cost anything (except potential heatstroke)... Going out on a boat did... Money spent on boats decreased the money that we could spend on beer... Hey, ya' just gotta have your priorities straight... <grin> > > And anyone who'd be crazy enough to do that when there's plenty of good > boat [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > money that we could spend on beer... Hey, ya' just gotta have your > priorities straight... <grin> And the Navy didn't have boats? Methinks a clever sailor could figure a way to commandeer a boat for diving. At least in the middle of the night when no one would miss it. >> Anything over 80 and I'm in a speedo. I might even do it at 75 if >> it's one tank only and it's really hot topside > > We used to dive the caves in Florida (72F) without a wetsuits... But > then again, after hiking through the woods with a set of doubles in > 95-100F weather, the 72F water felt really good... I found things to be just the opposite. I knew the back way into Blue Springs, so there was not a lot of hiking involved. All it took was a bit of skill at driving in sand to get us and our gear to the hole's edge. In the summer, I found the water quite cold. In the winter, however, particularly on winter nights, the water was warmer than the surrounding air. That's when it felt good to me. The post dive company of a co-ed beside a blazing fire also felt pretty good. Lee > I found things to be just the opposite. I knew the back way into Blue > Springs, so there was not a lot of hiking involved. All it took was a bit > of skill at driving in sand to get us and our gear to the hole's edge. In > the summer, I found the water quite cold. In the winter, however, > particularly on winter nights, the water was warmer than the surrounding > air. That's when it felt good to me. I don't remember there being anywhere you could drive and get close to the spring head... I believe that we walked in basically where the boardwalk now exists and although it seemed like we hiked for a mile through the woods, up and down the gulleys, it probably wasn't more than a half mile... Considering the gulleys that we hiked through, I don't think that we would have even tried getting a vehicle through there if we had had a 4x4 at the time... >> I found things to be just the opposite. I knew the back way into >> Blue Springs, so there was not a lot of hiking involved. All it [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > don't think that we would have even tried getting a vehicle through > there if we had had a 4x4 at the time... Assuming we're talking about the Blue Springs in Orange City, Florida, you just had to know where thedirt road was. You tuned down one dirt road and off on to a sand one. We could get the car close enough to leave our drinks, etc. in the trunk. I knocked the license tag off my buddies car on that road once. I was diving there from 1966 through around 1971. You did have to know how to drive in sand. Many a Yankee got stuck trying to travel that sand road. I haven't a clue who owned the property back then or when/if the sand road access was closed. Lee > Assuming we're talking about the Blue Springs in Orange City, Florida, you > just had to know where thedirt road was. You tuned down one dirt road and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > that sand road. I haven't a clue who owned the property back then or > when/if the sand road access was closed. Yep, same Blue Springs... I was there back around 1981 when I was stationed in Orlando... We didn't know about any road that got close to it... If we had, we probably would have ended up stuck anyway... <grin> Whatever happened to that really large sink hole that developed in Winter Park around that time? It swallowed part of a car dealership, if I remember correctly... Did it develop into a cave dive site or just end up another circular lake? >> Assuming we're talking about the Blue Springs in Orange City, Florida, you >> just had to know where thedirt road was. You tuned down one dirt road and [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >correctly... Did it develop into a cave dive site or just end up another >circular lake? I'll bet it has some interesting wrecks. Although the dealer will probably claim they were all in mint condition. Signaturedillon Life is always short, but only you can make it sweet > I'll bet it has some interesting wrecks. Although the dealer will > probably claim they were all in mint condition. I seem to remember that a few Porsches ended up in the sinkhole... Something like 300-400 ft in diameter and over a hundred feet deep, if I remember correctly... It all happened within the span of a day with most of it occurring within the first few hours... It was quite remarkable... Grumman-581 left this mess on Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:54:17 -0500 for The Way to clean up: >> Anything over 80 and I'm in a speedo. I might even do it at 75 if it's one >tank [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >again, after hiking through the woods with a set of doubles in 95-100F >weather, the 72F water felt really good... Yea, that would do it for me, I know that. Tao te Carl "It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003 (Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-a.s question here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif >I realize that there are quite a few variables but I'd like to get a >"general" idea. Several years ago I went to about 100 ft. in the >Cayman Islands in a bathing suit and it was getting too cool but we >were fine at around 50 ft.. I haven't noticed a big difference in temperature in the Caribbean as you descend. 79-80 is the threshold for me, down to 75 with a 1mm tight suit. But you can't get a constant answer. Much of the reasons for me wearing a suit is jellies/picas/sunlight. OTOH, I occasionally swim in a swimsuit in 50-60 waters. SignatureJason O'Rourke www.jor.com <sytech@yahoo.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :What's "generally" recognized as warm enough water temperature where a :wetsuit isn't required and a bathing suit is enough. Generally, about 80F. Even so, covering your body with at least a lycra suit prevents underwater mosquito bites and other things like that. Dan Bracuk If at first you don't succeed, you run the risk of failure. The Best of rec.scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/ > <sytech@yahoo.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: >> What's "generally" recognized as warm enough water temperature where [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Dan Bracuk newbie commentary here: I read a what seemed good to me article in SCUBA magazine ( I supposed that may be flame bait right there?) regarding low grade hypothermia build up with subsequent days of diving, even in warm water (80) As I tend to run cold anyway, this was very interesting to me. I figure my best response is to wear more in the water while diving than one might think to wear while diving anyway. I'm not going to ask for opionions on what I might wear, but more on the concept. penny s >> <sytech@yahoo.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: >>> What's "generally" recognized as warm enough water temperature where [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >penny s Last big trip I went on, I wore progressively more as the week progressed. By the end of the trip, I was wearing a fleece, 3 mm shorty and a hood. And wishing I'd packed my farmer john. Signaturedillon Life is always short, but only you can make it sweet > I read a what seemed good to me article in SCUBA magazine ( I supposed that > may be flame bait right there?) It's not so much what you read, but your response to it. Even Rodale's and Skin Diver print(ed) something useful now and again. > regarding low grade hypothermia build up > with subsequent days of diving, even in warm water (80) Anecdotally, my experience supports the idea. If your body temp was significantly low you'd probably figure it out by all the shivering, but it's certainly possible to drop to about 97F and not realize it. > As I tend to run cold anyway, this was very interesting to me. I figure my > best response is to wear more in the water while diving than one might think > to wear while diving anyway. I'm not going to ask for opionions on what I > might wear, but more on the concept. If what you wear leaves you too hot in the water then you're wearing too much. Other than that I'd say it's a trade off between heat loss and flexibility, and air consumption. I always wear a hood. It started because the mask strap sometimes bothered my ears, but now the extra insulation is enough reason that I'd keep wearing it even if my ears fell off. If I feel the least bit cool after drying off at the end of the dive I'll pull on something warm (fleece sweater or heavyweight thermal undershirt, usually) even if the air temp is 80 to 85 and wear it until I get uncomfortable. I've noticed that most DM's in the Caribbean wear at least 3mm even when the water is 80*, and most have parkas that they may wear for the boat ride back. If there's one lesson you can learn from a brand new 22 year old DM, that's probably it. SignatureSteve The above can be construed as personal opinion in the absence of a reasonable belief that it was intended as a statement of fact. If you want a reply to reach me, remove the SPAMTRAP from the address. >What's "generally" recognized as warm enough water temperature where a >wetsuit isn't required and a bathing suit is enough. First off what's your goal? Does diving without a wetsuit have some special value? <the answer is no> >I realize that there are quite a few variables but I'd like to get a 84F water removes heat from your body at about the same rate as 40F air. That's the leverage of density. Go stand in a meat locker in your skivvies and tell me how much fun it is after an hour. There is nothing you can do to stop the transfer except insulate. The heat will leave. You can ignore the loss, and 'feel' comfortable but that doesn't change the physics. The heat is lost. Ignore all the boneheads telling you how tough they are and how they dive 70F water in a bathing suit. They also take 15 minute dives when everyone else is going an hour and/or dive with enormous tanks and still come up short. Short dives from excessive consumption is one of the reasons they "don't get cold"...a self-fulfilling fantasy, if there ever was one. Physics is physics and though some can ignore them, none escape their consequences. If your metabolism is able, it will replace the lost heat. That takes O2 and that means you breathe like locomotive. Neither you nor any of the other posters here can stop it. I used to swim the Missouri river every spring as soon as the ice left with a few of my friends. Very cold, and only a pair of shorts. I used to swim in trout streams. I can take the cold and I can take it for a long time. Last October, I spent a week on the Cayman Aggressor diving Bloody Bay wall for a week. The water temp was 86F and I wore a full 3 mm jumpsuit and hood the whole week. So did just about everyone else on the boat. When I'm diving, I have a choice. I don't have to lose heat. I can wear a suit and conserve it. Conserving heat is conserving air. Dive warm = Dive long. It's as simple as that. safe diving, bullshark >>What's "generally" recognized as warm enough water temperature where a >>wetsuit isn't required and a bathing suit is enough. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >That's the leverage of density. Go stand in a meat locker in your skivvies >and tell me how much fun it is after an hour. <snip> go read his post. It's good. >Last October, I spent a week on the Cayman Aggressor diving Bloody Bay >wall for a week. The water temp was 86F and I wore a full 3 mm jumpsuit >and hood the whole week. So did just about everyone else on the boat. > >When I'm diving, I have a choice. I don't have to lose heat. I >can wear a suit and conserve it. Conserving heat is conserving air. Also, hasn't there been a correlation between getting cold and DCS? >Dive warm = Dive long. It's as simple as that. > >safe diving, > >bullshark Signaturedillon Life is always short, but only you can make it sweet There's also the question of assorted critters and chaffing. At the very least wear a t shirt if not a dive skin. The Doc > What's "generally" recognized as warm enough water temperature where a > wetsuit isn't required and a bathing suit is enough. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Sy > What's "generally" recognized as warm enough water temperature where a > wetsuit isn't required and a bathing suit is enough. > > I realize that there are quite a few variables but I'd like to get a > "general" idea. I see a lot of people in just diveskins in the 80-84F range, but I won't get out of my 3mm until its 84F or 85F. Reason being that after 45-60 minutes, if you're not wearing more than a skin, you'll by now be cold. So as such, a lot depends on the expected dive duration. If its below 75F, I'll probably be in a full 1/4" farmer john. > Several years ago I went to about 100 ft. in the Cayman Islands > in a bathing suit and it was getting too cool but we were fine > at around 50 ft.. What time of year were you there? There are thermoclines in the Caymans, although their depth varies seasonally...in the late summer, they're well below 100fsw. Even so, the temperature change is usually only a few degrees...enough for you to really feel it when you hit a chilly upwelling coming up through a tube near the wall :-) -hh > What's "generally" recognized as warm enough water temperature where a > wetsuit isn't required and a bathing suit is enough. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Sy A common factor neglected in temp discussions is the air temperature. A lot of chilling can occur on boat deck and can have huge impact on your next dive. Adam #<sytech@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:050420041149118343%sytech@yahoo.com... #> #> What's "generally" recognized as warm enough water temperature where a #> wetsuit isn't required and a bathing suit is enough. #> #> I realize that there are quite a few variables but I'd like to get a #> "general" idea. Several years ago I went to about 100 ft. in the #> Cayman Islands in a bathing suit and it was getting too cool but we #> were fine at around 50 ft.. #> #> Thanks, #> #> Sy #> #> -- #> Please post and reply to sytech@yahoo.com # #A common factor neglected in temp discussions is the air temperature. A lot of #chilling #can occur on boat deck and can have huge impact on your next dive. # # Speaking from experience, Adam?? > Speaking from experience, Adam?? As if. I got my money on the PADI OW manual. Brian Edmonton, Alberta > #<sytech@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:050420041149118343%sytech@yahoo.com... > #> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Speaking from experience, Adam?? Speaking from experience. > What's "generally" recognized as warm enough water temperature where a > wetsuit isn't required and a bathing suit is enough. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Sy I find it also depends on the type of dive. If there is swimming involved, i.e. finning/exercise, e.g. searching the ocean for a school of hammerheads I stay warmer than if I'm doing fin pivots on the bottom waiting for Manta Rays to show up at a cleaning station. Hubby and I have been diving >10 years and are "insulated" enough to tolerate >78F or higher in just swimsuit and T-shirt. Recently, we switched to swimsuit and rash guard because the rash guards rinse easier, dry faster, and don't get as smelly after a long dive trip. Jo |
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