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Scuba Forum / General / April 2004

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advice needed for a newbie

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ozhanlion - 02 Apr 2004 14:15 GMT
Hello bluelovers.

at last I have found some money and self-confidence to get a certificate
in scuba diving. The problem I am having is I have talked with lots of
instructors and fellas and some of them adviced me to get a naui
certificate where as the others told me to get a padi. I really cannot
make my head straight about this question.

QWhat are the cons and pros of these two certificates. I have heard that
naui instructors give more serious education, and also some places in US
don't allow to dive with a PADI certificate, is it true ?

I am a guy living in Turkey, so my main route will be here in Turkey and
maybe US later next years probably.

I really need your guys advice in this problem.

thanks in advance.

oz.

--
ozhanlion
de Valois - 02 Apr 2004 15:14 GMT
There is essentially no difference, Oz. The differences are in how they approach
the material as opposed to whether one is better than the other.

What you DO want to take time with is choosing an instructor. That decision will
make diving great or just good.

ozhanlion left this mess on Fri, 2 Apr 2004 13:15:32 +0000 for The Way to clean
up:

>Hello bluelovers.
>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>Newsgroups
>---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Tao te Carl
"It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

(Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-a.s question
here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif
Chris Guynn - 02 Apr 2004 15:29 GMT
> Hello bluelovers.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> certificate where as the others told me to get a padi. I really cannot
> make my head straight about this question.

The common consensus is that PADI versus NAUI is mostly irrelevant.  Find a
good instructor and it doesn't matter what your card says.

> QWhat are the cons and pros of these two certificates. I have heard that
> naui instructors give more serious education, and also some places in US
> don't allow to dive with a PADI certificate, is it true ?

I've never heard of that.  I can't imagine it's true.

> I am a guy living in Turkey, so my main route will be here in Turkey and
> maybe US later next years probably.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> oz.

Welcome to scuba and especially welcome to rec.scuba.
Randy F. Milak - 02 Apr 2004 15:59 GMT
> Hello bluelovers.
>
> at last I have found some money and self-confidence to get a certificate
> in scuba diving.

    Good for you!

> The problem I am having is I have talked with lots of
> instructors and fellas and some of them adviced me to get a naui
> certificate where as the others told me to get a padi.

    Irrelevant.

> I really cannot make my head straight about this question.

    Understandable.

> QWhat are the cons and pros of these two certificates.

    Nothing, other than one says PADI whereas the other says NAUI.

> I have heard that naui instructors give more serious education,

    There are all sorts of instructors within the ranks of each and every
organization.  

> and also some places in US don't allow to dive with a PADI certificate, is
> it true ?

    Untrue.  In fact, I would think that VISA would be the most widely accepted diver
certification the world over, closely followed by the highly coveted MasterCard
certification, thereby beating out both PADI and NAUI as the most desirable diver
card.

> I am a guy living in Turkey, so my main route will be here in Turkey and
> maybe US later next years probably.
>
> I really need your guys advice in this problem.
>
> thanks in advance.

    Good luck Oz, and have fun.

--
Randy F. Milak
~Money is nice, yet nice is worth more!~
Lee Bell - 03 Apr 2004 13:49 GMT
> What are the cons and pros of these two certificates.

There's very little difference.  Some, including me, believe that the
consistency of quality education is better with NAUI than with PADI.  PADI
is intensely marketing oriented.  NAUI does not seem to be quite as intense
about their market orientation, but they're not perfect either.  Both
agencies have good and bad instructors.  A good instructor will provide good
training, no matter what the resulting certification card says.

> I have heard that naui instructors give more serious education . . .

It depends on the instructor.

> . . .  some places in US don't allow to dive with a PADI certificate, is
it true ?

PADI and NAUI are both internationally recognized certifications.  Whoever
suggested that you would not be allowed to dive with one card or the other,
is either ignorant or lying.  If you heard this from an instructor, you
might think twice about chosing that instructor for your training.  If he's
that ignorant or that willing to lie to get your business, he's probably not
the one you want to learn diving from.

> I really need your guys advice in this problem.

Meet with the instructors and pick your agency by what you think of him.  A
good instructor will be interested in diving and willing to spend time
talking with you about it.  He'll be up front about the cost of the course
and what is included.  You'll know him when you see him.  When you have
completed your entry level course, consider taking latter courses from other
agencies, but always seek out good instructors.  Exposure to more than one
agency can help you separate myths from facts and should give you more
information for making your own diving and training decisions.

Lee
KB9WFK - 03 Apr 2004 17:13 GMT
>Hello bluelovers.
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
>oz.

I'm going with the NAUI cert. because I really like the dive shop and
the instructors here.  They have what I think is a great deal.  After
you have taken a class, you can come back any time for a refresher and
the only additional cost would be the pool entry fee.  When we were
doing the confined water portion we had several people that were
planning a diving trip but had not dived in a year or so and wanted to
go over the basics.  It cost them about $12 and they got 4 pool hours
with all equipment and air plus 4 classroom hours if they wanted it.  
We are waiting for the water to warm up a bit (Chicago area) so we
won't be doing the open water until June sometime.  I'll probably
retake the last pool session just before then to help me get
comfortable again.  
This wasn't the cheapest class but it wasn't the most expensive
either.  It was the one that made me feel the most comfortable.

kb9wfk
Adam Helberg - 03 Apr 2004 20:29 GMT
> >Hello bluelovers.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> kb9wfk

You have to consider when you get certified that the dive shop is going to put major
pressure on you to buy gear from them, and it will be uncomfortable to buy gear elsewhere
if you want to dive with them.

Adam
KB9WFK - 04 Apr 2004 10:13 GMT
>> >Hello bluelovers.
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
>Adam

True, but that will be the case of almost any shop.  Not much getting
around it.  I just made my LDS a bit happy this afternoon.  I bought a
Mares 6 window mask.  The range of view it awesome.  I can even see my
sternum strap.  I could barely see my weight belt buckle before. If I
could see any further to the sides I'd be able to see my own ears.
:-)

kb9wfk
Lee Bell - 04 Apr 2004 14:05 GMT
> True, but that will be the case of almost any shop.  Not much getting
> around it.  I just made my LDS a bit happy this afternoon.  I bought a
> Mares 6 window mask.  The range of view it awesome.  I can even see my
> sternum strap.  I could barely see my weight belt buckle before. If I
> could see any further to the sides I'd be able to see my own ears.

Be sure to carry a spare mask in your dive bag.  The mask you just bought
has a reputation for frame breakage.  The one I bought did not last through
the first dive.  I have a friend that has had good luck with one of them,
but know more who have had the other kind.

Lee
KB9WFK - 04 Apr 2004 16:44 GMT
>> True, but that will be the case of almost any shop.  Not much getting
>> around it.  I just made my LDS a bit happy this afternoon.  I bought a
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Lee

Frame breakage from what?  Just water pressure?  Being sat on or
dropped?  Did the warranty cover it?  I planned to carry my original
mask as a backup.  

kb9wfk
Lee Bell - 04 Apr 2004 17:45 GMT
> Frame breakage from what?  Just water pressure?  Being sat on or
> dropped?  Did the warranty cover it?  I planned to carry my original
> mask as a backup.

Mine gave up for reasons completely unknown.  It was never stored outside of
its protective case.  About half way through the dive, I noticed it was
leaking badly.  After the dive, I looked it over and found one of the
uprights was broken.  Several others have reported similar experiences.  In
my personal opinion, the mask is a piece of overpriced junk, but like I
said, I know at least one person who has had luck with his.  I hope you have
as much luck with yours.

At first, the dive shop claimed it was my problem.  I was pretty clear with
them that nothing I had done had caused the problem.  The shop agreed to
send it back to Mares "to see if they would cover it."  A couple months
later, I still had no answer.  I happened to be in the ship while the Mares
reps were there.  I took advantage of the luck and discussed it directly
with them.  The agreed to replace it with another one just like it.  I
negotiated a change to a new, higher view two lens mask they had as a
sample.  It was a nice mask and fit me well, but was not available yet.
Several months later, when it became available, I found that the final model
didn't fit.  So, I paid well over $100 for a mask that broke and traded it
for a $50 mask that doesn't fit.  I suppose you might say that the warranty
covered it, but you might also say that I got nothing useful from the
warranty.  I'm back to using my previous backup, a Tusa Liberator.

The Mares was supposed to be a replacement for my USD three window mask.  It
lasted 15 years before I managed to break the plastic frame.  That one was
my fault and, even if it had not been, I would have been pleased at its
service.  Unfortunately, the mask was out of production.  I could not get an
exact replacement, hence my giving the similar Mares mask a try.

Lee
KB9WFK - 04 Apr 2004 18:14 GMT
>> Frame breakage from what?  Just water pressure?  Being sat on or
>> dropped?  Did the warranty cover it?  I planned to carry my original
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>said, I know at least one person who has had luck with his.  I hope you have
>as much luck with yours.

Thanks.  I do too.  Just to be clear, mine is a Mares ESA.

>At first, the dive shop claimed it was my problem.  I was pretty clear with
>them that nothing I had done had caused the problem.  The shop agreed to
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>covered it, but you might also say that I got nothing useful from the
>warranty.  I'm back to using my previous backup, a Tusa Liberator.

<g> Remind me not to take you with me when I get a new car.
That sucks.

>The Mares was supposed to be a replacement for my USD three window mask.  It
>lasted 15 years before I managed to break the plastic frame.  That one was
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Lee

Too bad you don't know when you first buy something like that if it
will be a piece of gear you will love and want another before it's too
late.  I've had the same thing with hiking boots.  Bought a pair that
lasted several years past their production run and couldn't find that
exact pair again.  Bought a close replacement and didn't care for them
nearly as well.  If I'd have bought 2 pair of the first ones I'd have
been in heaven.  If I'd bought 2 of the second I'd have been
regretting it.

kb9wfk
Lee Bell - 05 Apr 2004 04:14 GMT
> Thanks.  I do too.  Just to be clear, mine is a Mares ESA.

So was mine.

> <g> Remind me not to take you with me when I get a new car.
> That sucks.

I do much better with cars.

Lee
 
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