 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeArticlesDiving DestinationsLearning Scuba DivingMarine LifeMiscellaneousDiscussion GroupsGeneralScuba EquipmentScuba LocationsAustralian ScubaUK ScubaDirectoryScuba Clubs |
Scuba Forum / General / October 2003Problem with DIN first stages?
Okay, cut me some slack here, but...I have what is probably a stupid question. I was putting together a 20cf pony system for redundant air and decided it was a good chance to switch to DIN. However, when I went to buy the reg, the reg tech at the store told me not to go DIN because all DIN "dust plugs" leaked, meaning the first stages always ended up full of corrosion from leakage when you rinse the reg after removing it from the tank. This seems a little odd to me. Surely someone has designed a DIN "dust plug" that seals watertight to avoid this problem? This guy seems like a sincere fellow, but I dunno about this.... --Toren P.S. Does anyone sell a brass plug for the DIN tank valve? All I see are the delrin ones. > Okay, cut me some slack here, but...I have what is probably a stupid > question. I was putting together a 20cf pony system for redundant air and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ended up full of corrosion from leakage when you rinse the reg after > removing it from the tank. Your reg tech is full of corrosion him/herself. > This seems a little odd to me. Surely someone has designed a DIN > "dust plug" that seals watertight to avoid this problem? It should seem odd, because it is. > This guy seems like a sincere fellow, but I dunno about this.... > P.S. Does anyone sell a brass plug for the DIN tank valve? All I see > are the delrin ones. I've not seen a brass one, but I've got a couple of O ring sealed stainless ones. If you decide to use them, add a crescent wrench to your "always have" tool kit. If the valve accidentally gets cracked open, you're going to have a heck of a time getting them out without one. Lee >> P.S. Does anyone sell a brass plug for the DIN tank valve? All I see >> are the delrin ones. Ignore my comment... coffee is brewing as I type... >to buy the reg, the reg tech at the store told me not to go DIN >because all DIN "dust plugs" leaked, meaning the first stages always >ended up full of corrosion from leakage when you rinse the reg after >removing it from the tank. Huh? The cap on the reg seals pretty well, but why are you dunking the reg without it attached to the tank under pressure? As far as the tank's dust cap, so what if it leaks. It'll dry too. --- Rich http://richlockyer.tripod.com/ Rich Lockyer <rlockyer@linkline.DONTSPAMME.com> entertained us with: :The cap on the reg seals pretty well, but why are you dunking the reg :without it attached to the tank under pressure? Maybe he was in the tropics where the tanks stay on the boat, and you rinse your gear on shore. Maybe he was giving his regs a good soaking at home after returning from a dive trip, and he doesn't own tanks. Dan Bracuk As Big Ben said to the Leaning Tower of Pisa, I've got the time if you've got the inclination. The Best of Rec.Scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/ >Okay, cut me some slack here, but...I have what is probably a stupid >question. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >P.S. Does anyone sell a brass plug for the DIN tank valve? All I see >are the delrin ones. That's pure bullshit. I have Delrin DIN caps, and they most assuredly do not leak. There are SS tank plugs available. They're expensive ($20 or so) and have an O-ring in them. If you turn on a tank with one inserted, you had better have a crescent wrench to remove the plug with, otherwise you will not be getting it out. --  SignatureKarl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net Tired of spam at your company? LOOK HERE! http://childrens-justice.org Working for family and children's rights http://diversunion.org LOG IN AND GET YOUR TANK STICKERS TODAY! Thanks to everyone for the input. The facts are just about as I thought. I'm baffled by what the reg tech at the store thought he was accomplishing...after all, the DIN reg and the yoke reg were the same price. Dan, you are correct. I was (obviously) not concerned about a problem when attached and under pressure, but when diving in salt water away from home I like to soak my regs in warm water for an hour or so back at the hotel/condo/whatever. Thanks also to everyone for the advice on the steel tank plug! I carry a tool kit with me but I'll make *sure* I have the right wrench. Again, sorry for asking what was probably a waste of time question but better safe than sorry, and at just over 100 dives I'm at the short end of a very long learning curve.... Final decision...I'll head back to the store and get the DIN setup. The solidity of the design and the captured o-ring fill me with warm fuzzies, especially for a redundant air setup. --Toren >Okay, cut me some slack here, but...I have what is probably a stupid >question. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >P.S. Does anyone sell a brass plug for the DIN tank valve? All I see >are the delrin ones. BTW one thing to be aware of is that if you use a DELRIN plug on a DIN tank, and turn it on accidentally when its full, you may end up with a missile. That could be quite un-good. You have a LOT of pressure back there, 3000 psi or so, and the plug's internal area is probably pretty close to a square inch. That would be 3,000 pounds of pressure - I have no idea what the shear strength of the delrin threads is, but I bet its not enough to hold. The SS, on the other hand, will DEFINITELY hold. I personally won't use anything other than the SS plugs. If I have a tank that I don't particularly care about the contents of, I use no plug at all. A quick blast of gas will blow out whatever crud might be in the valve (water, etc) before hooking up. -- SignatureKarl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net Tired of spam at your company? LOOK HERE! http://childrens-justice.org Working for family and children's rights http://diversunion.org LOG IN AND GET YOUR TANK STICKERS TODAY! >Thanks to everyone for the input. >The facts are just about as I thought. I'm baffled by what the reg [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >>P.S. Does anyone sell a brass plug for the DIN tank valve? All I see >>are the delrin ones. >BTW one thing to be aware of is that if you use a DELRIN plug on a DIN >tank, and turn it on accidentally when its full, you may end up with a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >idea what the shear strength of the delrin threads is, but I bet its not >enough to hold. The delrin plugs are not solid, they do not have an O-ring, and they do not "bottom" in the valve, thus: Air will bleed from the pinhole in the side of the valve. Air will BLOW from the hole where the string is attached. It'll be fine... I've cracked my valves at 3500psi many times while carrying my tanks. I now carry them in a way that will not allow them to turn on if they slip. --- Rich http://richlockyer.tripod.com/ >>BTW one thing to be aware of is that if you use a DELRIN plug on a DIN >>tank, and turn it on accidentally when its full, you may end up with a [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > --- Rich > http://richlockyer.tripod.com/ Hmmmm... why use the plug at all if its not gas-tight? A delrin plug won't protect against impact damage (e.g. egg-shaping of the opening) and it also doesn't retain gas. If you don't want gas retention, why not just leave the orifice uncovered and blow it clear before attaching the reg? I have one of the Delrin plugs here, adn you're right - it has a hole in the end through which the string passes, and no O-ring. I still don't know if I'd trust if if I cracked my HP tanks when full with it inserted, and frankly, I don't see the point in using it at all. I bought a few of the SS plugs WITH O-rings, and I do use those. They prevent gas loss if someone is careless while moving my tanks around (say, on the boat) or if <I> have a momentary brain-fart while doing so. Those are more for gas retention than anything else - once I'm done with the tank(s) in question I leave them off. In this way they serve as a "full/unknown" indicator as well; if the plug isn't in there, then the contents label may be accurate as to the mix, but its not as to the pressure. When I'm done for the day and will not use the tank again without either remixing or dumping the contents, then the contents label is removed. A tank without a contents label is not diveable. Works for me. -- SignatureKarl Denninger (karl@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net Tired of spam at your company? LOOK HERE! http://childrens-justice.org Working for family and children's rights http://diversunion.org LOG IN AND GET YOUR TANK STICKERS TODAY! >If you don't want gas retention, why not just leave the orifice uncovered >and blow it clear before attaching the reg? Because of the eddy currents through the threads, if water (probably dirt) were to get into the valve, it would be impossible to get it completely clean prior to mounting the reg. The plugs aren't going to keep water out if the tank is dunked, but they will keep the splashes out on the way to the island and from slagging gear on deck. >tank(s) in question I leave them off. In this way they serve as a >"full/unknown" indicator as well; if the plug isn't in there, then the Same here, and the entire tank, valve included, is given a good soaking in fresh water, then allowed to dry. >When I'm done for the day and will not use the tank again without either >remixing or dumping the contents, then the contents label is removed. I remove mine as soon as the rig is assembled. If the dive is called, I reanalyze and re-tag (duct tape and magic marker). I don't bother with pressure and MOD on the contents label... I know what the MOD is for 32%, would still not violate the 32% MOD for 30 or 31, and if the plan included using nitrox deeper than 110, it would be either air, or a non-standard nitrox blend that would be intended for that specific dive only. That's now... when I get trimix certified, I won't be going below the 32% MOD on nitrox or air... but will still have a consistent MOD for any mix I would be using (110 or 150). >A tank without a contents label is not diveable. Not until it's analyzed again. --- Rich http://richlockyer.tripod.com/ > I have one of the Delrin plugs here, adn you're right - it has a hole in > the end through which the string passes, and no O-ring. I still don't know > if I'd trust if if I cracked my HP tanks when full with it inserted, and > frankly, I don't see the point in using it at all. Good. That makes you a good candidate for doing a test. Put the plug in, point it in a safe direction and open the valve fully. It will be interesting to know if the hole in the plug is sufficient to release the gas without blowing out of the valve. Oh yes, it might be a good idea to put on safety glasses and hearing protection . . . just in case. > When I'm done for the day and will not use the tank again without either > remixing or dumping the contents, then the contents label is removed. I remove the label just before I dive the tank. On most of my dives, my tanks don't make it home empty, but sometimes . . . Personally, I think I'm more likely to remember to remove the label just after I've confirmed I know what I'm breathing, just before I breathe it, than I am when I'm tired and just want everything out of the car and in the house. > A tank without a contents label is not diveable. > Works for me. Works for me too. I use my own labels, Sharpie marker on yellow duct tape. When my tank is filled, it's checked by the shop and me, in the shop. I reconfirm the pressure and contents at home, after the tank has fully temperature stabilized. When I do, the shop sticker comes off and mine goes on. I also confirm and label my air tanks since my access to premixed gas means that they may have/have had nitrox in them as well. Lee >Good. That makes you a good candidate for doing a test. Put the plug in, >point it in a safe direction and open the valve fully. It will be >interesting to know if the hole in the plug is sufficient to release the gas >without blowing out of the valve. Oh yes, it might be a good idea to put on >safety glasses and hearing protection . . . just in case. It holds. I've done it. Wear hearing protection. --- Rich http://richlockyer.tripod.com/ > P.S. Does anyone sell a brass plug for the DIN tank valve? All I see > are the delrin ones. Hi One of my mates makes these things up - brass for the reg and for the tank. http://www.innerrealm.co.nz/pricing.asp Ash Those look just perfect, Ashley. I've got two on order. Thanks for the link! --Toren >> P.S. Does anyone sell a brass plug for the DIN tank valve? All I see >> are the delrin ones. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Ash > Those look just perfect, Ashley. > I've got two on order. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > > >Ash You ordered two of them from New Zealand? Do you know what the shipping cost will be? Brownies Southport has stainless ones available here in the States. I assume that your e-mail address is here rather than in New Zealand. If not, nevermind. Lee >> Those look just perfect, Ashley. >> I've got two on order. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Lee Well, as an exhaustive Google search didn't turn any up in the States, and a search of Brownie's site didn't find them either, I went for the NZ plugs. Shipping is included, so there're not too expensive, and seem very nicely made. --Toren > Well, as an exhaustive Google search didn't turn any up in the States, > and a search of Brownie's site didn't find them either, I went for the > NZ plugs. Shipping is included, so there're not too expensive, and > seem very nicely made. Hope it's a comparable deal. What's the exchange rate? Lee >> Well, as an exhaustive Google search didn't turn any up in the States, >> and a search of Brownie's site didn't find them either, I went for the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Lee I looked it up earlier and can't remember the exact rate, something around $0.60 to 1 NZ$. about 59 US Cents per NZ dollar. the farmers are grousing cause it's cutting onto the margine, it used to be about 49 or 48 a few years back, but things have changed rhys (NZer) > > Well, as an exhaustive Google search didn't turn any up in the States, > > and a search of Brownie's site didn't find them either, I went for the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Lee |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.