..

The first advice I offer is this: DO NOT BUY ANYTHING until you have
completed the Open Water certification.  This will give you the opportunity
to learn about what each piece of gear must do, as well as the options.
You will also experience using it, which will go a long way to helping
you decide which gear is right for you.  In fact it is a good idea to
ALWAYS try new gear in the water befor you buy.

The other suggestion is this: Please try a backplate/harness/wing setup
for several dives before you buy.  An increasing number of divers is
finding this rig, with primary regulator on a 7 foot hose, is far
superior to ANY jacket style BC.  Yes there are those who disagree --
you may be one of them -- but you will potentially save youself US$1000
or more if you try both and buy the right one for you the first time.

With the equipment your buying (really pretty sophisticated stuff and totally
unnecessary for your purposes, but hey, it's your money), you can afford to pay
someone to do the inspection you're proposing.

Don't buy into the "Nitrox ready" myth. All good regs can handle commercial
(non-technical) nitrox mixes. Save yourself a lot of grief and a LOT of goofy
looks from other divers you may dive with. The ones who know will know you got
ripped off.

8.5knots left this mess on Wed, 21 Jan 2004 13:14:36 GMT for The Way to clean
up:

Tao te Carl
"It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

(Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-a.s question
here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif

I'm assuming you're full time cruisers. Is this correct?

Sure. Why not. BCs aren't something that requires much in the way of
factory support, so anything you're comfortable with will work fine.
Personally, I'd prefer a BP wings, which are far more versatile and can be
seperated for even tighter storage.

The biggest issue I'd have with this choice of regulator is getting it serviced
out in the islands. Personally, I'd go with regs that are used in rental
fleets, which means a greater chance of finding spare parts and someone who
knows how to work on the regs. My choice would be Scubapro, but I'm sure others
here can suggest alternatives.

Why have gauges and a computer, unless you're referring to having a computer
in a console. Some people like consoles, some people don't. Personally, I don't
, but I understand why people do and have no issue with them (as long as
they're secured and not dragging along the reef). My personal choice is a wrist
mounted compter/bottom timer, wrist mounted compass and a simple SPG clipped
off to my harness (aka, DIR-L), but a good console that combines all these
tools is the choice of many, and there's nothing wrong with it. Cochrans have
something of a checkered reuptation, and wouldn't be my first, second, or
third choice. Personally, I'd recommend something by Suunto, followed by
DiveRite (OMS/Seiko), followed by a generic "hockey puck" type of computer
(Oceanic/Genisis/Dacor/Mares). If you're thinking of going the DIR route
someday, the Suunto Vytek also works as an excellent bottom timer, or you could
go with a Uwatek dedicated bottom timer.

This sounds like overkill for your environment. I would think a 3mm or 5mm full
wetsuit would be plenty. Personally, I use a 3mm shorty in the tropics, but I
have a bit of "built in" insulation.

You might want to try the Quattros before you buy them. Many people really like
them, but some don't. Fins aren't quite as personal as masks, but close. Better
to try a few different styles before locking yourself into a purchase.

Fit is the most important feature in a mask. Don't buy a mask based on a
friends recommendation. Buy it based on how well it fits you. Here's a decent
reference on mask fitting:

http://www.caribinn.com/maskfitting.html

Any are fine.

Oh yeah, gotta have that fish killer strapped to the inside of your calf :-)

Seriously, the knife is more to deal with entanglement hazards than anything
else. Try this:

http://fifthd.com/cgi-bin/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=5AG&Prod
uct_Code=3013.000.100&Category_Code=01-5DSI

or this:

http://s1059kxm.leisurepro.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1
713&prmenbr=946&cgrfnbr=968&parentCategory=965&sort=prsdesc

Al 80's are cheap and available, but since you're going to be carrying these
onboard, and might be away from a compressor for a while, you might want to
consider something with a little more capacity.

Which is one reason to be wary of them.

Google this newsgroup or rec.scuba for "on-line" dealers or "LeisurePro" (the
largest and best known on-line dealer). There are pros and cons of using
on-line dealers (I've certainly bought my share of stuff from them), and people
have posted their experiences with several.

First things first. In the Bahamas you won't want to scuba, you'll free dive.
Been there done that. Owned big boat and cruised Bahamas off and on from
SoFla for 12 years. Carried scuba gear first 6 or so, then got wise.

Most of the Bahamas is shallow. Real shallow. Perfect for free diving.

You can't harvest ANYTHING in the bahamas using compressed air. No lobster,
no conch, no NADA. They'll take your boat if they catch you doing it. No
spears with triggers either. Hawaiian Sling or pole spear only. They'll take
your boat for that, too.

Getting ready to free dive takes 5 minutes. Getting ready to scuba (on a boat)
takes hours (before and after).

Getting scuba fills in the Bahamas is a PITA. When you can get them, they
are too expensive, and the gas coming out the a.s end of your car is
probably cleaner.

Caring for a compressor on an offshore boat is a nightmare. They require
a lot of maintenance and spares. A typical  $3000 compressor that has
been marinized (SS fittings and stuff) is 10,000.00 and it's crap. Stuff
it in a hot engine room with the (MIN 6Kw genset) and it's efficiency
and life is cut in half.

Getting scuba equipment repaired in Bahamas is next to impossible,
unless you are in one of two places.

There is no reason a weight integrated BC would be more difficult to
store than non weight integrated.

All regulators are nitrox-ready for recreational mixes.

You don't want anything exotic. Stick with USD or ScubaPro (maybe oceanic)
for regulators and you *might* be able to get them repaired...

Short story: except for the fins, just about everything you chose
is wrong. Even the fins are wrong if they don't fit, or you
haven't got the legs for big fins like Quattros.

requirements:
mask: fit
fins: fit
suit: fit
regulator: commonly repairable - get three sets so you have one to rob.
tanks: if you're worried about stowing BC's wait till you get to these.
      40 lb/tank full, BTW.

Get the training, do some diving, then buy the gear.

I see you have reasons you can't. Just as well skip it then.
Get the training. Dive with rented gear with Bahamian dive operators
in your cruise locale. Come back and get some gear later.

Diving from your own boat is serious stuff, and not for newbies.
In isolated locations common to the Bahamas, it's not for anyone.

1) You'll get swept away by a current and can't get back
2) Your boat will get stolen while your down
3) your anchor will drag while your down.
  Bahamian tides will just about guarantee it (look up "Bahamian moor").
  Also look up Thunderstorms. Memorial day Weekend: 40+ boats in anchorage.
  10 minute Thunderstorm w/50 knot gusts: 2 boats left in anchorage.
  (Mine and the Hatteras that dragged into me and snagged my lifelines)
4) You will have a dive emergency and there is nobody rescue trained to help
5) You will have a dive emergency and you'll have not oxygen and not know where
  to go.
6) you will have a dive emergency that's not, because you're not trained to tell.
7) You'll dive in places that you shouldn't, because you don't know any better.
8) you'll avoid 1..3 by leaving someone else on board and die anyway, because
  they'll panic getting the boat underway. Think of all they have to do
  while you're in trouble...then they have to manage not to run you down,
  or lose sight of you in mounting seas...
9) my favorite: the people I had to rescue because their diving brought
  in a school of aggressive Lemon sharks that drove them on to Turtle
  Rocks and kept them there, 50 feet from their boat till after sundown.

A new diver is certain to have a Panic/Bad/Problem Dive somewhere in the first
100. You don't want to be alone when it happens. A lot of newbies quit diving
after that dive. One bad one is all it takes. *You* OTOH, will quit *everything*.

...it ain't pretty.

safe diving,

bullshark

No problem.  We love newbie questions.  We sometimes know the right answer
to them.

Congatulations.

England).

You were doing great until you got to the "returning to New England" part.
8^)

Almost all diving boat owners do some underwater work on their boats,
including me.  There are some who feel that this is a bit too close to
commercial diving for the average recreational diver.  It is safe to say
that there are risks that neither you, nor I, may have considered.  Be
careful.

You may put a compressor aboard, but you won't use a hooka device.  When
you've been diving for a while, try one before you buy one.  You'll be
surprised how constraining they are.

Never heard of it.

Never heard of it.

Never Heard of it.

Never heard of it.

I don't know much about the Commander, but I do know something about past
Cochran computers and have strong opinions about the owner of the company
that makes them.  Personally, I won't own one, but that's just me.  There
are a lot of computers on the market.  I like the Oceanic "hockey puck"
computers myself.  In addition to being relatively inexpensive, they are a
standard size and shape and can be replaced easily without replacing the
console they are mounted in.

It all depends on how easily you get cold.  I'm a native of S. Florida and I
never use anything more than a 3mm.  If it's cold enough to use a wetsuit,
it's cold enough I don't want a shorty.  You may chose otherwise, but I
suggest you go slow on this.  We sell wetsuits here too.

I'm a big fan of Mares fins.  Here in Florida, you don't usually need the
thermal protection offered by booties, which means that you don't have to
chose open heel fins.  Full foot fins generally transfer energy more
efficiently than open heel fins and can often be purchased for half what you
pay for the same fin in open heel.  Mares Plana Avanti and TRE fins are both
a good choice.  For now, you probably should not consider the Mares Quatro
Power fins (available only in full foot) that I use for spearfishing.  Check
out the prices at http://diversdirect.com/ for both open and closed heel
Mares fins.

There's one thing that all right thinking divers agree on.  A mask must fit
properly.  Don't even think about buying one by mail order or internet until
you have confirmed, with help from somebody that knows what they are doing,
that the mask fits.  You can pay a little or pay a lot, but no matter what,
the mask has to fit.

Neoprene is comfortable.  Mesh is almost as comfortable and tends to be more
durable.

Your choice.  Make sure it's sharp.  Consider supplementing your knife with
shears.  As a boater, don't let anybody talk you out of a knife.  It is much
more efficient at cutting line off your props and shafts.

Catalina compact 80.  They're harder to find, but you'll be glad you took
the time to look.

I worry about life support equipment by manufacturers I don't know by name.
A lot of retailers buy a lot of junk to sell to the unsuspecting.  Be
particularly careful about your regulator and octopus.  Scuba regulators are
normally serviced annually.  Make sure that service is available where
you'll be for the regulators you'll have.  Scuba Pro, US Divers and other
name brands can be serviced pretty much world wide.

That should be a big hint not to go with IDI.  Remember the service comment
from above.

I have experience with www.diversdirect.com , but they are local for me.
The biggest problem is going to be your new status.  You can save a lot of
money buying equipment on line, but you may be too much of an easy mark.  I
don't recommend anybody buy on line that does not know exactly what they
want and how much it should cost and does not fully understand the risks . .
. like a possible lack of warranty for on line purchases.

Good luck.  When you get to S. Florida, shoot me a line and maybe we'll
cruise a mile or two together.

Lee

Try before you buy.

do the course through a shop that will let you try different gear on each
dive so you can see what ones you like, then have someone you trust that
knows dive gear and isn't affiliated with the shops you're buying at go with
you. If in florida, well Lee Bell offered to help i believe, and while I've
never met him, he comes across as a good guy in Rec.Scuba, UK.Rec.Scuba and
here. take him up on his offer to spend your money for ya.

the IDI gear sounds pretty good stuff, but a cheap Sherwood Brut will do
just as well for rec diving, and has the advantage of being as bullet proof
a piece of SCUBA kit as you can find. Theres a reason why they're popular
with rental agencys and dive training shops.

rhys

<big snip>

First of all, the word is that IDI has gone out of business, so I
would definitely not buy any of their products. I would not recommend
IDI regulators anyway. Instead I would highly recommend Apeks
regulators that are available from any Seaquest dealer as well as many
online sources. Apeks have very high performance and are extremely
reliable. They are also a world standard and parts and service are
available just about anywhere you go. This is not something you can
say about IDI.

Some may try to talk you out of this,  but I would not get any
conventional jacket-type BC. They're all pretty bad really. Instead
I'd buy any good-quality backplate and a Halcyon Pioneer wing (or
perhaps the new Halcyon Eclipse wing, but I haven't seen one yet to
comment). This type of setup is so much better than anything else
going in my opinion. There is really no comparison.

Mares Plana Avanti fins are pretty good. I have a pair, and I like
them. There are better fins though IMHO. Scubapro Jet Fins are my all
around favorite. You have to know how to use them however, which may
not be obvious at first, so the Mares fins may be better to start
with.

Forget the Cochran computer. Although I'm not a big computer fan, I'd
recommend an Aeris Atmos 2 or an Oceanic Versa Pro (essentially the
same computer). Both are very useable computers and also make good
bottom timers when you learn more about diving.

Also I wouldn't buy a big console with lots of gauges or anything
complicated. Keeping it simple is always best. Get a simple SPG and
wear your computer and your compass on your wrists. Keep electronics
to a minimum.

Any good-quality exposure protection is OK I suppose. Don't skimp
though. Dress more warmly than you think you should at first. Even
tropical water is much cooler than your body temperature, and you lose
heat amazingly fast

Luxfer 80 is a good choice for a tank. You will always be able to use
them for something.

There is one thing for sure... Your attitude about what is good diving
gear will change over time. Almost everyone I know who has been diving
for a while has a closet or a basement or a garage full of junk that
they bought but no longer use as they have learned more.

Good luck.

-bob

OK, I've stayed quiet for a little bit trying to interpret the results.

First, I was a little unfair to "bullshark".  Deep down I understand now
that he was trying to give me advice.  At the time of his post, it seemed
more like he was trying to scare me than provide help.  His real message got
lost in the negativity and I'm sorry that I attacked back.  The bottom line
is that I'm a big boy and understand all of the risks associated with many
of the activities that I do.  I'll definitely be sticking my toe in the
water before I'm diving to 100 ft. from my boat...

There was some great advice about mask fitting.  I learned a lot from those
postings.  I've come to the conclusion that I shouldn't purchase anything
prior to taking the first set of classes.  I'm more interested in buying the
right equipment than buying it right now.

The previous list of equipment was developed by a friend who has many diving
credentials and teaches in a lot in exotic places.  Perhaps some of his
guidance was due to living in New England and differences in equipment needs
here.  When you're new to something like scuba, it's really hard to know
"who to trust."  I know that my friend has my interests and safety at heart
when he gave me the list of equipment.  I also know that you probably hear
that type of thing all the time:  "my diving-expert-master friend told me
XYZ".  Still, I have to give his recommendations more credibility than
anything else I've read.  Don't be offended by that - you'd do the same
thing.

I'm mostly confused by the IDI/Seaira discussions.  I've heard things
questioning their serviceability, questioning their quality, and even
questioning their viability as a company.  That's pretty disturbing and to
be honest, doesn't make sense from other people I've talked to at all.  I
originally said that I had a hard time finding IDI products sold through the
internet.  I found only two places.  Very inexpensive equipment seems to be
available all over the internet.  I was more interested in good online
places that perhaps I wasn't finding.

In terms of the yearly suggested servicing of regulators - isn't that done
by the manufacturer?  Does it really matter if a lot of shops sell their
equipment?  If something breaks on a regulator, I doubt that I'm going to
want to go into a local shop and get a "part" to fix it anyway.  It's sort
of the thing where you replace the whole thing, isn't it?

More importantly, why does IDI consistently get the highest marks for their
products by independent reviews?  To me, initial quality is a lot more
important than seeing the product in every dive shop that I meander into.

There were also some slams at PADI.  I don't understand the politics of this
at all - I'm sure it exists and I'm sure there are lots of stories.  To a
newbie getting into this, they have an excellent program that fits my
schedule and purposes perfectly.  I'm not sure why it needed to be
challenged or put down.  The goal should be to bring new people into the
sport by many means.  Over time, we'll find the education that we need if
we're interested.  All of the negativity is really bad - from a completely
new person getting involved let me tell you...you're not doing your sport
any service.

Many of you were very kind with offers to help me pick out equipment.  I
think that this entire subject is more involved than I initially realized
and I need to do more investigating and learning.  I'll probably just get
the minimum that I need to take the classes now and experiment with new
equipment next Summer when I'm back in New England.  It'll mean missing some
diving in the Bahamas now...but we'll be back.

Again, thank you for all of the comments.

Dearest 8.5 'nots':
1. First 'not'.. sign your dang letter, maybe even with a 'thanks.'
2. Second 'not'.. try not to glorify your wherewithal (financial
worldliness).
3. You've already chosen your equipment?? Sheeat.. listen, all seriousness
aside, you'll be okay.
-Cowboy Lips

Definitely wait to buy the equipment until after you get certified.

I'm new to diving myself and the difference between my approach to
equipment before certification and after are like night and day.

I got certified between a couple of locations by doing a referral. The
rental equipment was from different manufacturers. It gave me a chance
to see differences. It also gave me a wider range of sources to
discuss equipment with. By getting information from several different
dive shops and divers I narrowed the choices down. After doing some
research on the net I narrowed it down even more.

Most importantly now that I'm certified I know that I will be doing
enough diving to justify the expense, not that it takes long with
rental rates what they are..... :-)

I ended up with mainly Scubapro and Uwatec equipment but, importantly,
I can articulate exactly why I chose them and it wasn't just because
somebody recommended them. All of the items meet my needs and will for
the foreseeable future.

Unless you can afford to buy new equipment on yearly basis, and want
to do so, it's best to wait until you can decide yourself what you
need and why. Recommendations are fine but unless you can
independently evaluate them they can be unintentionally misleading.

HTH