 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeArticlesDiving DestinationsLearning Scuba DivingMarine LifeMiscellaneousDiscussion GroupsGeneralScuba EquipmentScuba LocationsAustralian ScubaUK ScubaDirectoryScuba Clubs |
Scuba Forum / Scuba Equipment / January 2004Full face masks
For your money, what do you concider the most versatile full face mask?  SignatureSharkbait oh ha ha!!! > For your money, what do you concider the most versatile full face mask? First, there's no reason I can see that anyone but a commercial or PS diver needs a FFM, but having extensive exposure to and dealings with those who do need them, the almost unanimous choice is the Interspiro http://www.interspiro.com/divator.html Some people who just use a FFM for O2 deco use the Scubapro. > > For your money, what do you concider the most versatile full face mask? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Some people who just use a FFM for O2 deco use the Scubapro. Well, Im breaking into public safety diving. Which helps me out, since the police academy sponsors alot of classes that would otherwise cost me alot of money to get. But Since I'm buying my own gear, I want something thats versatile and comfortable. For the rec side of things, I find a full face mask to be slightly more comfortable, due to being able to breath through my nose. After spending several years training and fighting fires with SCOTT packs, I'm used to full face masks, and its a natural easy step for me. I've also found that by breathing through my nose, I reduce my air consumption. > > > For your money, what do you concider the most versatile full face mask? > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > face masks, and its a natural easy step for me. I've also found that by > breathing through my nose, I reduce my air consumption. The divator is wonderful. (Even with a full beard) Check out their site and see what firefighters in Europe were wearing well over 30 years ago. They never got DOT certified, so NASA and the Navy are the only ones using them for fighting fire and diving. I got to make one dive with one in the mid 70's and fell in love. Underwater they were better than anything I'd used at the time. But walking around they were *wonderful*. Very easy to put on. The center of gravity is close to the body and you can get into smaller spaces. The harness is designed to place the weight on the hips so you lossen the shoulder straps a bit and it's like taking it off. 4400 Psia and two (or three cylinders ) gave a lot of air. > For the rec side of things, I find a full face mask to be slightly more > comfortable, due to being able to breath through my nose. After spending > several years training and fighting fires with SCOTT packs, I'm used to full > face masks, and its a natural easy step for me. I've also found that by > breathing through my nose, I reduce my air consumption. That's all well and good, but what are you going to do if you run out of gas and have to share somebody else's? Lee > > For the rec side of things, I find a full face mask to be slightly more > > comfortable, due to being able to breath through my nose. After spending [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > That's all well and good, but what are you going to do if you run out of gas > and have to share somebody else's? For sports diving, I'd advise against it unless he dove with the same person all the time. But he said he's "breaking into public safety diving." and in that case would be diving alone, that is, he'd be in the water alone. > For sports diving, I'd advise against it unless he dove with the same person > all the time. > > But he said he's "breaking into public safety diving." and in that case > would be diving alone, that is, > he'd be in the water alone. I'm not sure that a full face mask is best for anything but the most specialized of diving, most particularly in polluted or exceptionally cold environments and/or where quality communications are critical. My experience with public service divers, through my friends on local dive and ship inspection teams, does not suggest that they are alone most of the time. To the contrary, they are much more likely to operate in a team than I ever am. I imagine OSHA has something specific to say on that point as well. Still, I have no problem coming up with situations where they would be alone, in reality and effectively. I would expect to find full face masks on commercial divers who, I think, are more likely to be alone and are more likely to critically need good communications, but I'm a bit out of my element on this. I could be very wrong. At any rate, even when alone, my alternate, or an independent gas supply, like a pony, isolated or independent twins and even a Spare Air, provides some degree of redunancy/backup. A full face mask would seem, to me, to cause problems even with self help. It simply does not seem to be the right tool for most jobs. Lee > > For sports diving, I'd advise against it unless he dove with the same > person [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > well. Still, I have no problem coming up with situations where they would > be alone, in reality and effectively. You have described a lot of what public safty divers do and the choice of a full mask is a wise one. Most S&R dive teams are taught by sports SCUBA instructors and reflect the use of dive teams. Public safty diving is an entirely different mindset and is gradually replacing this system. It is not done for for fun and it is not a sport. If you do your job you do not have time to watch out for your buddy, even if you can see him. You work on a line, with communications if you can afford it and your safty diver has a full tank of air and is warm and toasty on the surface. It is *the* way professional public safty divers work today. In the early 70's the dive industry did a lot and kept OSHA at bay. A basic class would probably cost over $500.00 today had we not done that and peeing in your wet suit wouold probably and litterally be agaainst the law. (OSHA would not let sea water from an abalone farm in Monteray to be pumped back into the ocean because it contained abalone sh.t.) <Snip> > At any rate, even when alone, my alternate, or an independent gas supply, > like a pony, isolated or independent twins and even a Spare Air, provides > some degree of redunancy/backup. A full face mask would seem, to me, to > cause problems even with self help. It simply does not seem to be the right > tool for most jobs. For the average diver even if the problems you describe didn't exist the expense alone does not justify them. Buy a mask and regulator and spent the difference on a dry suit. (But they do solve the mask fogging problem.) > > For the rec side of things, I find a full face mask to be slightly more > > comfortable, due to being able to breath through my nose. After spending [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Lee Bail out, insert octo, and retrieve backup mask from pocket. Next question. > > That's all well and good, but what are you going to do if you run out of > > gas and have to share somebody else's? > Bail out, insert octo, and retrieve backup mask from pocket. Next question. What pocket? > > > That's all well and good, but what are you going to do if you run out of > > > gas and have to share somebody else's? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > What pocket? Thigh pocket on dry suit, pocket on BC... > > > > That's all well and good, but what are you going to do if you run out > of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Thigh pocket on dry suit, pocket on BC... What drysuit. 8^) You need to move to a warmer part of the world. Lee > > > > > That's all well and good, but what are you going to do if you run > out [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Lee Just chock full 'o questions, ain't ya? > > > > > > That's all well and good, but what are you going to do if you run > > out [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Just chock full 'o questions, ain't ya? Yep. Actually, they're not questions. They just look like them. They were all references to the concept of having to carry a spare mask because you can't share somebody else's gas because you have a full face mask on and, from there, to the logistics of carrying a spare mask if you don't have a drysuit to have a pocket in, a wetsuit to have a pocket in and/or your BCD is a wing which also has no pockets . . . which mine is. No pockets, no place to carry a spare mask and, if wearing a full face mask, a problem if I have to share somebody else's gas. For my money, and that of most other dives, the consequential issues related to use of a full face mask are not worth it unless there's a specific reason you need a full face mask. Extreme cold and/or a requirement for communications are probably pretty good reasons. I can't think of many more right off the top of my head. The last comment was probably the best element of my involvement in this thread. You need to move to a warmer part of the world. Lee > > > > > > > That's all well and good, but what are you going to do if you > run [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Lee Your arguents are noted, however I think purchase of a FFM for me will revolve around comfort and personal preference, as well as general familiarity from my FD days. As for the pocket argument, I already own a Dive Rite thigh pocket that attaches to my weight belt and attaches around my thigh, essentially giving me a thigh pocket even if I do not have one on the given gear I'm wearing at the moment. As for having to ditch the mask in order to get my buddies octo, it's not an extremely difficult effort. A nuisance should it happen? Yes, but so is running out of air (not likely with correct training and air management) or a mechanical failure (possible if mechanaiclas not maintained.) As for moving, I happen to enjoy coastal Georgia, some of the dive spots are little known, and very enjoyable. The eather has some weird extremes, but for the most part, its a great palce to live and dive. Too cold? Not really, as I've stated before, its more of a personal comfort issue. At tiems it's a bit too nippy for just a neoprene hood and mask, but tolerable. And Yes, I'd certainly enjoy living in a warmer climate. But move for the sake of the diving? Nope. > Your arguents are noted, however I think purchase of a FFM for me will > revolve around comfort and personal preference, as well as general > familiarity from my FD days. Not so much arguments as observations. If you're willing to carry a spare mask "just in case" in return for the comfort of a full face mask, who am I to disagree. The combinations makes you almost as safe as somebody that does not have to swap out a mask which is another disadvantage. In an emergency, you'll have to remove the full face mask, take the alternate from somebody else while unable to see clearly and then extract and put on your spare mask. That's a significantly more complex task than simply taking somebody's second stage, but it's doable. The reality of it is, if you're careful, you should never need to perform these tasks. Still, I recommend you practice them, just in case. > As for moving, I happen to enjoy coastal Georgia, some of the dive spots > are little known, and very enjoyable. The eather has some weird extremes, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > And Yes, I'd certainly enjoy living in a warmer climate. But move for the > sake of the diving? Nope. There's more to S. Florida than diving. There's only one Everglades in the world. Lee > > Your arguents are noted, however I think purchase of a FFM for me will > > revolve around comfort and personal preference, as well as general [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > careful, you should never need to perform these tasks. Still, I recommend > you practice them, just in case. If he is doing a Public safety course worth anything, he will indeed be practicing, probably two or three times a month, every month. Impudently Tao, don't let them use duct tape on your mask. Go for Gaffers tape or the white stuff they carry for packaging. No residue. > Bail out, insert octo, and retrieve backup mask from pocket. Next question. Question 1-When you practised all this, just how f.cked up was it and why didn't you see it to be the clusterfuck it is? Question 2- Are you expecting to hit dive 50 sometime this year? Question 3 - How's the PADI DM training going? Brian Edmonton, Alberta > > Bail out, insert octo, and retrieve backup mask from pocket. Next question. > > Question 1-When you practised all this, just how f.cked up was it and > why didn't you see it to be the clusterfuck it is? You're joking right? This is far easier to do than tossing all your gear in the pool, then jumping in and putting it on. This was common when I learned to dive and I made it optional when I startred teaching. Everybody did it on their first try. (Then wondered why they did it at the beginning of their diveing for the next 30 years.) > Question 2- Are you expecting to hit dive 50 sometime this year? Most basic divers do what is essentially 90% of this before they do their first dive. By the time they are ready for public safety diving it would be easy. > Question 3 - How's the PADI DM training going? I've been both a PADI and NAUI instructor. Have you? I ended up PADI and the students that dropped out of my course because they could not meet the standards went to a NAUI instructor to be certified. It's the instructor, stupid, not the agency. > I've been both a PADI and NAUI instructor. Have you? No. I've only been a PADI DM and NAUI Instructor. Oh and an SSI Instructor and an IANTD instructor. > I ended up PADI and the students that dropped out of my course because they > could not meet the standards went to a NAUI instructor to be certified. > > It's the instructor, stupid, not the agency. And your point has what to do with anything I said? And to think we used to think of you as the "Good Painter". Obviously you're just as big of a f.cking idiot as the other one. Brian Edmonton, Alberta > > I've been both a PADI and NAUI instructor. Have you? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > And your point has what to do with anything I said? I'm sure somebody will explain it to you. > And to think we used to think of you as the "Good Painter". Obviously > you're just as big of a f.cking idiot as the other one. > I'm sure somebody will explain it to you. When they do I'll be sure to pass it on to you so you'll understand as well. Brian Edmonton, Alberta > > Bail out, insert octo, and retrieve backup mask from pocket. Next question. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Brian > Edmonton, Alberta I think you've got me confused with somebody else. > > Bail out, insert octo, and retrieve backup mask from pocket. Next question. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Brian > Edmonton, Alberta And just for clarification, since you obviously need it, when I said bail out, Iwas refering to the FFM, not the BC. Pulling a mask off is supposed to be a clusterfuck? How in theworld do you manage to talk out of your a.s and type at the same time? > > > Bail out, insert octo, and retrieve backup mask from pocket. Next > question. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > be a clusterfuck? How in theworld do you manage to talk out of your a.s and > type at the same time? What a silly question. Obviously he has his desk arranged so he can stand up and type. > > > > Bail out, insert octo, and retrieve backup mask from pocket. Next > > question. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > What a silly question. Obviously he has his desk arranged so he can stand up > and type. I imagine walking and chewing bubble gum requires genius level thinking as far as he is concerned. > And just for clarification, since you obviously need it, when I said bail > out, Iwas refering to the FFM, not the BC. And where did I say you were talking about the BC? >Pulling a mask off is supposed to > be a clusterfuck? It is when you do it. > How in theworld do you manage to talk out of your a.s and > type at the same time? I figured it must be easy since you do it so well. Brian Edmonton, Alberta > > And just for clarification, since you obviously need it, when I said bail > > out, Iwas refering to the FFM, not the BC. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Brian > Edmonton, Alberta Explain to me how taking a mask off your face, and inserting an octo is a clusterfuck. Anyone familiar with the location of their equipment and it's use should be able to accomplish it. If you think thats a clusterfuck, then I'd hate to see your opinion on something more dangerous, like walking and chewing bubble gum. I'm a PSD and used the AGA for 6-7 years. I have a 13 cf pony attach with a manifold block that takes one/half turn to give me air. We also train regularly to ditch the FFM, breath off a regular second stage and put on backup regular mask. Agapsdiver > > For the rec side of things, I find a full face mask to be slightly more >> comfortable, due to being able to breath through my nose. After spending [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Lee >For your money, what do you concider the most versatile full face mask? We have tried ffm for wreck diving for years. They are a liability only. Doubt my word , do a doff and done in ice cold water. Then try it at 100 ft, if the ice cream head ach doesn't make your head explode. You only have to experience once, me I had to do it twice. Once as a drill and once because I was out of air. Both went smoothly, but I wouldn’t do it again. (I sold mine so I wouldn’t be tempted to use it again) Also try to find someone who knows how to service it. We stop trying to integrate them into tech diving about 15 years ago. The best at the time was the Aga (which was mentioned here by a different name) D... I have taught a lot of firefighters to dive. Skip the ffm thing it will only get you in trouble. There's a good reason serious divers don't use them. As for training being a fire fighter you might what a challenge. And might want to dive with like minded people. Look into GUE (New)or an old time cold water instructor (very rare). Then if your going high tech skip all the crap and start looking at rebreathers cheaper in the end. Last point ffm's are for in water O2 deco, dirty water, and divers on the end of a line. As for communications once you learn hand signals it is a world on to itself. I use to dive with a sh.t load of Poles and French not too many spoke English, but had no problems understanding hand signs, even a few of the cusses . As for talking to topside that's a different matter, as a tech diver you have every thing with you. If you dive your plan then you only need a marine radio to call for pick up.(if need be) As for air consumption a properly tuned reg will out perform any FFM. In my case my Poseidon's out preformed the Aga by about 30%. I had a frog in mine to save air while on the surface. A frog was a fitting that allowed you to kind of snorkel the FFM on the surface. It had an auto close as well as a manual. With out the frog I got about 50% less time. In a rough sea the frog was nice it kept the water out, but if it didn’t you have to do a manual drain. There are masks out there with auto drains, but they are more toy like and will not take the abuse an Aga will. T for the $$ the cressi rubber ffm is about $100 the IST version is made of silicone and about the same price scubapro ffm are over $350 reefmaster are even more the aga & is ffm are way up there and too much $$ to service OCEANIC has some really cool options > For your money, what do you concider the most versatile full face mask? > > -- > Sharkbait oh ha ha!!! |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.