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Scuba Forum / Scuba Equipment / August 2008old SCUBA gear what to do
I have in my basement a Nemrod regulator, Nemrod bouyancy compensator, USD 80 cubic foot cylinder with J-valve, a pressure guage attached to the regulator and a few related items. The equipment was new circa 1979, but has not been used since around 1983. After watching "Jaws" with the kids many years ago, I checked the tank's pressure and bled it down to perhaps 300-500psi LOL! What to do with this old gear? I guess I'll never use it again and it's taking up space. Is it saleable and does that make sense? Or would it be better to dispose of the gear, and what would be the safest way? I'm in northeastern Ontario, Canada. Thanks for any suggestions. d. >I have in my basement a Nemrod regulator, Nemrod bouyancy compensator, > USD 80 cubic foot cylinder with J-valve, a pressure guage attached to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > would it be better to dispose of the gear, and what would be the > safest way? I'm in northeastern Ontario, Canada. To the best of my knowledge, Nemrod is out of business. That may mean that the regulator and possibly the BC have little or no value. Take them by your local dive shop and ask them if they can be serviced. If they can be, they're probably worth selling. I'm not sure who made USD tanks. If it's not Luxfer or Walter Kidde, then the tank may have value as well. You're probably going to have to have it hydro and visually tested too. If the equipment can be serviced and is functional, sell it on EBay. Lee > >I have in my basement a Nemrod regulator, Nemrod bouyancy compensator, > > USD 80 cubic foot cylinder with J-valve, a pressure guage attached to [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Lee Thank you for your reply, and also the other posters for their humor and honesty. Hydrostat and e-Bay seem hardly worthwhile for a tank that might fetch $100 max? I quess I'll be visiting the dump, or else a local dive shop to see if they want a donation :) . d. > Thank you for your reply, and also the other posters for their humor > and honesty. Hydrostat and e-Bay seem hardly worthwhile for a tank > that might fetch $100 max? I quess I'll be visiting the dump, or else > a local dive shop to see if they want a donation :) . d. $100 is better than nothing. I suspect that most dive shops would sell a tank that old themselves. If you decide to simply get rid of it, don't take it to the dump. Hang on to it until you can fill a couple of trash bags with empty beer and soda cans and take it all to a scrap metal dealer. There's enough aluminum it a scuba tank to be worth a few bucks. Lee I gave some old scuba gear to a local fire station. They were delighted to get it and will use it for training. Jeanne >> >I have in my basement a Nemrod regulator, Nemrod bouyancy compensator, >> > USD 80 cubic foot cylinder with J-valve, a pressure guage attached to [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > a local dive shop to see if they want a donation :) . > d. -- >>> I have in my basement a Nemrod regulator, Nemrod bouyancy compensator, >>> USD 80 cubic foot cylinder with J-valve, a pressure guage attached to [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > a local dive shop to see if they want a donation :) . > d. When I condemned some old AL tanks, I drilled a hole through the shoulder of each, rendering them unusable for anything but scrap.  Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' [Default] Thus spake Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten>: >>>> I have in my basement a Nemrod regulator, Nemrod bouyancy compensator, >>>> USD 80 cubic foot cylinder with J-valve, a pressure guage attached to [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >When I condemned some old AL tanks, I drilled a hole through the >shoulder of each, rendering them unusable for anything but scrap. There's an interesting fight going on right now regarding that. Seems the tank is still the property of the owner. > [Default] Thus spake Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten>: > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > There's an interesting fight going on right now regarding that. Seems > the tank is still the property of the owner. It is, but I no longer care to possess it. If they can figure out a way to plug the 1/2" hole and get it filled, they're welcome to use it. Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' >> [Default] Thus spake Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten>: >> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > It is, but I no longer care to possess it. If they can figure out a way > to plug the 1/2" hole and get it filled, they're welcome to use it. It's an interesting one that because while you don't have possession of the tank you have deliberately damaged it however if have condemned the tank than you probably have a duty of care to make sure it cannot be refilled >>> [Default] Thus spake Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten>: >>> [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > tank than you probably have a duty of care to make sure it cannot be > refilled Then I'm sure that you could cite a law empowering you to criminally damage my private property against my will. Signature"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails" -Ward Popeye "Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere," -Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com >>>> [Default] Thus spake Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten>: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > Then I'm sure that you could cite a law empowering you to criminally > damage my private property against my will. not being an expert on US law or even interested I can't. Just raising the point that if the tank is condemned does the condemner have a duty of care to make sure it is not refilled. Logically probably not, the owner of the once they are informed the tank is no good should take responsibility for any harm caused by the tank being filled. However logic and the law are 2 different things >>>>> [Default] Thus spake Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten>: >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >>> >>> It's an interesting one <----------------- >>> that because while you don't have possession of the tank you have >>> deliberately damaged it however if have condemned the tank than you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > not being an expert on US law or even interested You were interested a minute ago, when you clearly said "It's an interesting one". Australian law will do just fine. > I can't. Just raising the point that if the tank is condemned does the > condemner have a duty of care to make sure it is not refilled. Logically > probably not, the owner of the once they are informed the tank is no good > should take responsibility for any harm caused by the tank being filled. > However logic and the law are 2 different things If it was my tank, and unless the problem was obvious (in which case I'd have skipped the inspection), I'd be getting a second opinion. Signature"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails" -Ward Popeye "Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere," -Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com > Australian law will do just fine. >> I can't. Just raising the point that if the tank is condemned does the >> condemner have a duty of care to make sure it is not refilled. Logically >> probably not, the owner of the once they are informed the tank is no good >> should take responsibility for any harm caused by the tank being filled. >> However logic and the law are 2 different things Duty of care is a legal term that varies with the legal system involved. There are probably a number of diving related laws and regulations in Australia, and in other countries, that are not duplicated in the US. > If it was my tank, and unless the problem was obvious (in which case I'd > have skipped the inspection), I'd be getting a second opinion. Generally, that's my thinking as well. At the very least, I'd want a full explanation and an oppportunity to see something that justifies why my tank needs to be taken out of service BEFORE it is permanently altered to make it unfillable. Lee >> [Default] Thus spake Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten>: >> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > It is, but I no longer care to possess it. If they can figure out a way > to plug the 1/2" hole and get it filled, they're welcome to use it. I'd be filling it with the point on your head. I have VIP'd hundreds, and probably, a thousand or more, tanks. I have found that the vast majority of tank failures using eddy current are incorrect. I've -never- seen a valid failure of a steel tank (not that it doesn't happen). If you drilled a hole in one of -my- tanks, you'd be using as a suppository for a spell. If you had made that consequence perfectly clear ahead of time, which I believe is your right, I would have gone elsewhere. Signature"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails" -Ward Popeye "Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere," -Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com >>> [Default] Thus spake Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten>: >>> [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > If you had made that consequence perfectly clear ahead of time, which I > believe is your right, I would have gone elsewhere. I suppose I should've been more clear - these were my personal tanks that were too old and beat up for me to have any confidence in them. After I drilled the holes, they were donated as scrap to the buggy dude that cleaned out the dumpsters. By the look on his face, you'd think he found gold. Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' >> If you had made that consequence perfectly clear ahead of time, which I >> believe is your right, I would have gone elsewhere. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > cleaned out the dumpsters. By the look on his face, you'd think he found > gold. My apologies to you. The point still stands. A lot of tanks get drilled for no reason. Signature"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails" -Ward Popeye "Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere," -Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com >>When I condemned some old AL tanks, I drilled a hole through the >>shoulder of each, rendering them unusable for anything but scrap. > There's an interesting fight going on right now regarding that. Seems > the tank is still the property of the owner. How could it not be. The last time I condemned tanks, they were my tanks. I drilled the holes myself and sold them as scrap. They were old Luxfers. I've seen a lot of discussion about whether or not someone that inspects tanks has a right, or an obligation, or whatever, to render it unusable. For most of my diving history, it was assumed that a tank that failed hydro would be effectively destroyed. It wasn't until recently that it became a question. I assume the question arose because of failure of electronic testing for micro cracks in the neck is not as obvious, or as independent of operator skill, as a hydro test is. Personally, I prefer safe to sorry. Lee > How could it not be. The last time I condemned tanks, they were my tanks. > I drilled the holes myself and sold them as scrap. They were old Luxfers. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Lee Back in the early 80s, there was a company that did big time cylinder refurbishment in California called King Neptune. They got sued by one of their customers for drilling a hole in a cylinder that failed. The owner argued in court that the DOT specs say to render it un-fillable but not to destroy it. It turned out that all the hydro inspector can legally do is X out the hydro date and information but can't otherwise damage the tank so King Neptune lost. As an aside, it pissed them off so bad that they invested in a seriously high pressure hydro pump so that when they had a failed hydro, they could continue pumping it up until they actually had wall failure. They never had a question again! ;-) SignatureRay Contreras =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= http://www.coltri-usa.com http://www.rayzplace.com >> How could it not be. The last time I condemned tanks, they were my >> tanks. I drilled the holes myself and sold them as scrap. They were [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > could continue pumping it up until they actually had wall failure. They > never had a question again! ;-) I'll bet that was fun to watch. :) Signaturejer email reply - I am not a 'ten' >>> How could it not be. The last time I condemned tanks, they were my >>> tanks. I drilled the holes myself and sold them as scrap. They were old [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > I'll bet that was fun to watch. :) I know that you are joking but it is not fun to watch and is bloody dangerous ( don't know how the shrapnel got our of the water bath from a rupture at the bottom of a tank ) not quite as bad as when one of our cousins from across the sea dropped a full tank after leaving it upright ( told to lay it down but that is not how it is done from where he is , BULLSHIT) and knocked off the valve, made a mess of the shop. > I'll bet that was fun to watch. :) There really isn't all that much to watch. I was at a dive shop while they were doing hydros on the local Coca Cola plant CO2 cylinders and they were talking me through the hydro process when they had one fail by splitting. All that happens is that the pressure drops almost immediately. Since the tanks have water inside and out, it equalizes pretty rapidly. I didn't even notice any sound ... but the hydro guy did and knew immediately what had happened. It is only when they are filled with gas that a side wall failure is dramatic and dangerous. SignatureRay Contreras =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= http://www.coltri-usa.com http://www.rayzplace.com >> I'll bet that was fun to watch. :) > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > pretty rapidly. I didn't even notice any sound ... but the hydro guy did > and knew immediately what had happened. I assume that when they fail early nothing happens but when they fail late imhe all sh.t happens > It is only when they are filled with gas that a side wall failure is > dramatic and dangerous. I must disagree with you in my experience. However a side wall failure is dramatic > I assume that when they fail early nothing happens but when they fail late > imhe all sh.t happens Sounds like you have never watched a hydro. When a hydrostatic test is done, the inside of the tank is submerged in a water filled chamber and filled with water. The chamber is sealed and a hose hooked to the cylinder. The chamber has a manometer in it to measure the level of the water and water is pumped into the cylinder up to the set pressure(s). The manometer reads expansion of the cylinder. The pressure is then bled off and the manometer is again read to see how well the cylinder returned to it's original shape. If the cylinder maintains the correct elasticity, it passes. If it is at full pressure and the side wall fails, you would only be able to see the manometer jump a bit since water is not compressible and any release will drop it's pressure FAST! A side wall failure of a filled cylinder with gas is where the drama comes in. That phone booth sized chuck of air in the tank wants to return to it's original size and will knock down just about everything in it's way until it gets there. Shops that still fill in water tanks will have water and tank shrapnel everywhere. Those that use "pop cans" will have everything over the fill station (ceiling tiles, inventory on pegs, picture frames from the ego wall, etc) blown to hell. SignatureRay Contreras =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= http://www.coltri-usa.com http://www.rayzplace.com >> I assume that when they fail early nothing happens but when they fail >> late imhe all sh.t happens > > Sounds like you have never watched a hydro. That's about his usual SOP. > When a hydrostatic test is done, the inside of the tank is submerged in a > water filled chamber and filled with water. The chamber is sealed and a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > to see the manometer jump a bit since water is not compressible and any > release will drop it's pressure FAST! Yup. Signature"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails" -Ward Popeye "Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere," -Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com >>> I assume that when they fail early nothing happens but when they fail >>> late imhe all sh.t happens >> >> Sounds like you have never watched a hydro. > > That's about his usual SOP. knowing the facts? I'll accept that >>>> I assume that when they fail early nothing happens but when they fail >>>> late imhe all sh.t happens [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > knowing the facts? I'll accept that I'm sure you would. If you ever did. But that's not what I said. What I said was, you're a lying douchebag. And everybody else accepted -that-. Signature"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails" -Ward Popeye "Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere," -Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com >> I assume that when they fail early nothing happens but when they fail >> late imhe all sh.t happens [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > cylinder returned to it's original shape. If the cylinder maintains the > correct elasticity, it passes. yes even down under > If it is at full pressure and the side wall fails, you would only be able > to see the manometer jump a bit since water is not compressible and any [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > everything over the fill station (ceiling tiles, inventory on pegs, > picture frames from the ego wall, etc) blown to hell. yes and your point is what? > yes and your point is what? Just that you said: >> I assume that when they fail early nothing happens but when they fail >> late imhe all sh.t happens and that isn't the case at all. Not a slam ... just educating where I can. SignatureRay Contreras =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= http://www.coltri-usa.com http://www.rayzplace.com >> yes and your point is what? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > and that isn't the case at all. Not a slam ... just educating where I > can. really Oh well things are different in the NH >> yes and your point is what? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > and that isn't the case at all. Not a slam ... just educating where I > can. <snicker> Signature"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails" -Ward Popeye "Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere," -Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com > Back in the early 80s, there was a company that did big time cylinder > refurbishment in California called King Neptune. They got sued by one of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > X out the hydro date and information but can't otherwise damage the tank > so King Neptune lost. > As an aside, it pissed them off so bad that they invested in a seriously > high pressure hydro pump so that when they had a failed hydro, they could > continue pumping it up until they actually had wall failure. They never > had a question again! ;-) They should have been sued again. It's interesting that the DOT specs apply since they are only for interstate transportation of pressure vessels. Lee >> Back in the early 80s, there was a company that did big time cylinder >> refurbishment in California called King Neptune. They got sued by one of [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > It's interesting that the DOT specs apply since they are only for > interstate transportation of pressure vessels. surely they unsafe in the legastive area where the are. Hey don't they make the laws? >I have in my basement a Nemrod regulator, Nemrod bouyancy compensator, > USD 80 cubic foot cylinder with J-valve, a pressure guage attached to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > would it be better to dispose of the gear, and what would be the > safest way? I'm in northeastern Ontario, Canada. eBay You could recycle the metal and throw the rest in the trash. That's a good plan B if the eBay thing doesn't work out. Your local dive store might take the equipment for a store display. One dive store near me has a diver hanging from the ceiling donning vintage equipment. You could dress a mannequin for Halloween and leave it by a high-traffic area hoping that some kid will steal it. Same mannequin but in the back yard, half-buried, like the diver is coming from the earth. Same mannequin but on the top of the roof by the chimney at Christmas time. Same mannequin but standing in front of a neighbors window late at night. (Let the police haul the peeper away.) You've many options. [Default] Thus spake "ben bradlee" <NoWay@Way.Bite.Me>: >>I have in my basement a Nemrod regulator, Nemrod bouyancy compensator, >> USD 80 cubic foot cylinder with J-valve, a pressure guage attached to [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >but standing in front of a neighbors window late at night. (Let the police >haul the peeper away.) You've many options. Buy a skeleton (you can get the polyester ones pretty cheap). Put the gear on it, gently torch it and then leave it in the middle of a burnt out forest fire area. > Buy a skeleton (you can get the polyester ones pretty cheap). Put the > gear on it, gently torch it and then leave it in the middle of a burnt > out forest fire area. I like the way you think. Lee > [Default] Thus spake "ben bradlee" <NoWay@Way.Bite.Me>: > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > gear on it, gently torch it and then leave it in the middle of a burnt > out forest fire area. Rec.scuban Tim Ewing: www.firediving.com Excellent t-shirts and tank tops. Signature"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails" -Ward Popeye "Best thing for him, really. His therapy was going nowhere," -Hannibal Lector. www.finalprotectivefire.com > I have in my basement a Nemrod regulator, Nemrod bouyancy compensator, > USD 80 cubic foot cylinder with J-valve, a pressure guage attached to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Thanks for any suggestions. > d. Everything is sell-able at the right price to the right people. I have sold a couple of dozen regulators of that era and before to collectors. There are a few out there that were Nemrod fanatics and would pay a couple of bucks for an old regulator. Not a lot, mind you ... but some. When we had a dive shop I was an "antique restorer" and had a bunch of old regulators in my museum. My old Nemrod was a double hose, though as we still sold the single hose Snark until we sold the shop in 1991. Nemrod stopped making regulators about 1998. If you put it on Ebay, make sure that you list it as a collectors' item and not something to be used or you will get some newbie trying to take it to class with him. The cylinder should be still good. You could probably get $25-50 for it or maybe a little more if you take the time and money to get it tested. Although a hydro can run up to about $20 some places and that is about all it will add to the value. Hope that helps! SignatureRay Contreras =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= http://www.coltri-usa.com http://www.rayzplace.com |
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