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Scuba Forum / Scuba Equipment / April 2008

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regulator choice ??

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Hi-Soft - 31 Mar 2008 00:45 GMT
I know i'm probably going to open a tin of worms here but :

Im looking to purchase my first regulator set (1st stage, 2nd stage & occy),
and I've narrowed it down to just few after lots of reading & researching
etc...

Tusa : RS-110 / SS-110

Oceanic : Alpha 8 ( reg & occy)

AquaLung : Calipso reg / ABS occy

Opinions for final decision please ...?

BTW, I'll probably do most of my diving in Victoria to max 30 meters..

cheers,
BC
Adam Helberg - 31 Mar 2008 06:37 GMT
> I know i'm probably going to open a tin of worms here but :
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> BTW, I'll probably do most of my diving in Victoria to max 30 meters..

Is that Victoria in Secret?
Hi-Soft - 31 Mar 2008 08:33 GMT
>> I know i'm probably going to open a tin of worms here but :
>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Is that Victoria in Secret?

no such luck...just as in "public" lol..
Adam Helberg - 01 Apr 2008 03:34 GMT
>>> I know i'm probably going to open a tin of worms here but :
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>>
> no such luck...just as in "public" lol..

I'd advise to stay away from Oceanic based on my experience with two Oceanic Delta
2's.

Adam
Hi-Soft - 01 Apr 2008 04:24 GMT
>>>> Tusa : RS-110 / SS-110
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>>>
>>>> Opinions for final decision please ...?

> I'd advise to stay away from Oceanic based on my experience with two
> Oceanic Delta 2's.
>
> Adam

What problems did you have Adam ?
Adam Helberg - 01 Apr 2008 06:31 GMT
>>>>> Tusa : RS-110 / SS-110
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> What problems did you have Adam ?

I have two Oceanic Delta 2's one with the piston and the other diaphragm first stage.
With both of them when I've exceeded the maintenance interval I've had leakage from
the first stages. I've had to rent a regulator a number of times and cancelled dives
when traveling because of first-stage air leakage. Now I've learned to have regulator
overhauled at exactly the one year mark and so far so good.

I'd go with a another brand. Many on this group will recommend Apeks or Scubapro. You
can also peruse reviews on scubadiving.com.

Adam
Hi-Soft - 01 Apr 2008 08:20 GMT
>>>>>> Tusa : RS-110 / SS-110
>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Adam

Hmmm...also heard today..that they are expensive to service too...but hard
to know when opposing dealers tell you stuff like that....

Anyone have opinions on the Tusa regs ?

I was told to go for "balanced" at any rate...so might have to move up from
the basic entry level reg....

bc
Lee Bell - 01 Apr 2008 12:12 GMT
I too have had problems with Oceanic Regulators, very similar to the ones
reported.

When I first read this post, I thought to recommend against all of the
regulators on the list. You're price shopping for life support equipment,
something not often recommended. On second review, there is one on the list
likely to be fine, maybe.

I've had several US Divers/Aqualung regulators, from the balanced first
stage models to some of the higher end options. I've never had a significant
problem with any of them, even back before we knew that we were going to die
if we failed to pay for scheduled service every year. I assume, but can not
confirm, that the Aqualung regulators made today are as reliable as those
made when I bought my first one some 40 plus years ago.

My personally recommendation is to rethink your options. I currently dive
Scuba Pro Regulators. There's a reason they've been one of the top few in
every test almost as long as they've been manufactured. On top of proven
quality, they come with a good waranty. They're guaranteed for life and all
parts required for annual service are covered as long as you get them
serviced annually.

The current favorite of the technical croud, people who really bet their
lives that their regulators will be reliable, seems to be Apeks. I've not
used one myself, but certainly would consider them if I were buying another
regulator.

You mentioned that people had advised you to buy a balanced regulator. That
recommendation is a bit like one to buy the most expensive car you can
afford. It's right, but it's not necessarily right for you.  I've had a few
unbalanced first stage regulators and, to tell the truth, I don't think
their breathing characteristics are different enough to be noticable except
in the most extreme conditions. The one thing that is different is how they
perform as your tank approaches empty. At about 500 psi above ambient
pressure, they get noticably harder to breathe from. That can be a plus or a
minus, depending on how you look at it. It's nice to be able to use all your
gas without increased effort, but that change in breathing effort is a
pretty noticable warning that it's time to head for the surface for those
that don't pay quite as much attention to their gas supply as they should. A
balanced first stage will breathe just the same until it's about one breath
from providing no air at all. For those not careful enough to ensure they
don't run out, they run out suddenly rather than automatically providing a
buffer between a diver's inattention and his death.

As I recall, and I'm less certain about this, unbalanced first stages also
breathe harder when you're inverted. While that's not a normal position for
most divers, it is for some, people cleaning boat bottoms or examinging
ovehead structure in a wreck or cave, for instance.

The best advice anyone can give you is:
1. Try various regulators before you decide.
2. When comparing price, make very sure you include the price of service in
your evaluation. A waranty like you get with Scuba Pro can make a major
difference in cost over time.
3. Consider cost, but don't let cost become your most important
consideration.
4. Absolutely consider the availability of service in areas you're likely to
dive. Some brands can be serviced almost anywhere in the world. Others have
a limited service network. You're really going to hate it if you have to sit
out dives in some beautiful, expensive, dive destination because nobody
local has parts for your regulator.

Lee
Hi-Soft - 01 Apr 2008 13:01 GMT
>I too have had problems with Oceanic Regulators, very similar to the ones
>reported.
[quoted text clipped - 61 lines]
>
> Lee

Thanks Lee, all good points there.. The one thing I really need to consider
is wether I buy them here in Australia or on line from the US... as the cost
difference is  HUGE....but not sure how it will effect the warranty..and
life time parts etc. if i buy from the US..

it's just a shame it's such a big difference in price....if it were just a
hundred or even  two hundred...i'd by locally...but it's more like several
hundred difference ;(

And I'm also up for a 7mm wetsuit too...so the costs just keep
mounting...honestly it would be almost cheaper for me to catch a plane to
the US....go to LeisurePro buy all my gear and fly home than buy locally (
if i needed a complete set up of everything )... Fortunatle I have most of
my gear already...just these last few ( vital ) things now... decisions,
decisions....

bc
Lee Bell - 01 Apr 2008 15:09 GMT
> Thanks Lee, all good points there.. The one thing I really need to
consider
> is wether I buy them here in Australia or on line from the US... as the
> cost difference is  HUGE....but not sure how it will effect the
> warranty..and life time parts etc. if i buy from the US.

Find out about that before you buy. It could make enough of a difference to
warrant the higher cost.

Since you're considering an on line purchase, check out what's available
from http://www.diversdirect.com/ . They're a growing chain of brick and
mortar stores as well as a significant player in the internet sales market.
They have a local dive shop here that has the best prices on tanks, masks
and spearfishing equipment I've found anywhere in the area.

I'm not sure how much they may have of interest to you, but you might also
want to take a look at http://fillexpress.com/retail.shtml .  I bought some
of my technical equipment from Fill Express and drive way out of my way to
get my tanks filled there. I've had poor experiences with technical shops
closer to home, including some very well known ones. Fill Express is one of
the largest Dive Rite stores in the country.

> And I'm also up for a 7mm wetsuit too...so the costs just keep
> mounting...honestly it would be almost cheaper for me to catch a plane to
> the US....go to LeisurePro buy all my gear and fly home than buy locally
> ( if i needed a complete set up of everything )... Fortunatle I have most
> of my gear already...just these last few ( vital ) things now...
> decisions, decisions....

Don't do it. Leisure Pro is in New York. If you're going to fly to the US to
shop for scuba gear, fly to south Florida and shop for it here. Our prices
may be slightly higher, but our diving is way, way better.

Lee
Adam Helberg - 02 Apr 2008 00:50 GMT
You can find some info on regulator choices here:
http://www.scubadiving.com/gear/regulators

Adam
Adam Helberg - 02 Apr 2008 00:58 GMT
There's a trend towards first-stage diaphragm regulators:

http://www.scubadiving.com/gear/regulators/new_regs_for_2007
dechucka - 02 Apr 2008 02:29 GMT
>>I too have had problems with Oceanic Regulators, very similar to the ones
>>reported.
[quoted text clipped - 66 lines]
> as the cost difference is  HUGE....but not sure how it will effect the
> warranty..and life time parts etc. if i buy from the US..

look at you duty/customs consideration if bringing stuff in from o's. You
might be OK but it is more than $x  and I can't remember what it is $400?
you are up for duty so factor that in.

> it's just a shame it's such a big difference in price....if it were just a
> hundred or even  two hundred...i'd by locally...but it's more like several
> hundred difference ;(

make sure you take into all factors when buying from o/s. 99.9 % of the time
with dud gear things will be OK and guarantees will be recognised but it is
hard to fight for your rights o/s compared to in your home country

> And I'm also up for a 7mm wetsuit too...so the costs just keep
> mounting...honestly it would be almost cheaper for me to catch a plane to
> the US....go to LeisurePro buy all my gear and fly home than buy locally
> ( if i needed a complete set up of everything )... Fortunatle I have most
> of my gear already...just these last few ( vital ) things now...
> decisions, decisions....

Virgin is flying to the US for a great cut price rate
Hi-Soft - 02 Apr 2008 03:12 GMT
-- >

>> And I'm also up for a 7mm wetsuit too...so the costs just keep
>> mounting...honestly it would be almost cheaper for me to catch a plane to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Virgin is flying to the US for a great cut price rate
lol..as much as I'd love to my budget for the rest og my gear is about $600
;(

On another note... has anyone here ever serviced their own regs ?   Surely
it couldn't be that hard ???...and at $200 per year  to service... I
wouldn't mindlooking into it..just out of principle....
dechucka - 02 Apr 2008 11:24 GMT
> -- >
>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> it couldn't be that hard ???...and at $200 per year  to service... I
> wouldn't mindlooking into it..just out of principle....

I service a lot of things at home with or without the training or the
certificate but when I f.cked it up I take it to the expert and they fix it
i in 1/100th of the time it took me and it works. If my tractor dies it is a
hassle if it is my reg dies it is a real life threatening hassle.

Know what you're doing go for it.     I give my gear to the experts to
service, it leaves my wife and kids someone to sue when it fails
Baz - 31 Mar 2008 13:58 GMT
>> I know i'm probably going to open a tin of worms here but :
>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Is that Victoria in Secret?

If Diving Victoria Secret's, you have to make sure you have the correct
Mouth Piece!
Baz
dvbtkptn - 05 Apr 2008 21:03 GMT
The first thing you have to do and I don't know how long you have been diving
is to decide first WHAT TYPE of DIVING YOU ARE GOING TO BE DOING/GETTING INTO.

Then you can go about choosing the type of regulator you need and budget for
it. YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT. Don't make the mistake of buying a budget reg
when you plan to get into Tech diving take your time and investigate. There
are many good quality regs out there. Go to your LDS and try them out, rent
for a while until you decide the type of diving you will be doing.

Hope this helps

>I know i'm probably going to open a tin of worms here but :
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>cheers,
>BC
Hi-Soft - 06 Apr 2008 08:37 GMT
> The first thing you have to do and I don't know how long you have been
> diving
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Hope this helps

Yes...I have since given it a lot more thought...and decided to at least
increase my budget to open up my choice substantially.... and to include
Oceanic's GT4, Tusa's RS-230....and also considering the Apeks XTX20 & 40...
amongst others...

As far as the type of diving I'll be doing...it will pretty much just be
recreational...I'll most likely go for my Adanced O.W. down the track...but
due to time and budget I can't see my self getting to tech in the near
future... I think i'd be lucky to get 10 dives in per year... ;(

bc
Don Gingrich - 09 Apr 2008 03:07 GMT
>> The first thing you have to do and I don't know how long you have
>> been diving
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> to tech in the near future... I think i'd be lucky to get 10 dives
> in per year... ;(

Re some of my earlier comments in this thread.

1) Make sure you know how to clean all of your kit properly
2) Make sure you get regulators serviced if you get salt
  water in them
3) service the regulators every two or three years

But if your are going with point 3 make sure that points 1 and 2
also apply.

-Don
Hi-Soft - 09 Apr 2008 03:21 GMT
>> As far as the type of diving I'll be doing...it will pretty much
>> just be recreational...I'll most likely go for my Adanced O.W. down
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> -Don

yep good point Don...definitely one thing not to skinmp on...though most
dealers in Aust were telling me to service then every year ... even if i
don't use then !!!

Does that sound a bit over the top ?? hard for me to argue, since i know
little about that stuff...
joe - 09 Apr 2008 03:39 GMT
>>> As far as the type of diving I'll be doing...it will pretty much
>>> just be recreational...I'll most likely go for my Adanced O.W. down
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> Does that sound a bit over the top ?? hard for me to argue, since i know
> little about that stuff...
Almost all regulator designs keep spring pressure on both the low pressure
seat and the high pressure seat even when in storage.  This constant
contact between the seats and the knife edge of the adjoining part can
cause the seat to deteriorate with time even without use.  In my
experience, they are usually ok for a few years, but you have to ask
yourself what a failure will cost you.  A regulator failure is very
unlikely to be a safety hazard if you are adequately trained and follow
your training, but there are other possible costs to consider.  If you are
out on a boat and you experience a regulator failure, then you probably
will not dive unless someone else is kind enough to provide a spare.  Is
missing a boat trip worth the savings on a regulator service?  What if you
are traveling somewhere where you cannot get your regulator serviced and it
fails during your vacation?  Then you are stuck with not diving for the
duration of the vacation or renting gear of unknown condition.
Hi-Soft - 09 Apr 2008 04:48 GMT
Signature

cheers,
Hi-Soft

>
>>>> As far as the type of diving I'll be doing...it will pretty much
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> fails during your vacation?  Then you are stuck with not diving for the
> duration of the vacation or renting gear of unknown condition.

Yep I hear you... I'll stick with 12mth service intervals i think...what's
$100 a year...when it's a vital part of your gear...

thanks..

bc
Lee Bell - 09 Apr 2008 10:30 GMT
> Yep I hear you... I'll stick with 12mth service intervals i think...what's
> $100 a year...when it's a vital part of your gear...

Probably about twice what you should be paying.

I mentioned before, that you need to pay attention to what the warranty
offers. Some brands, including my Scuba Pro regulators, include annual
service parts in the warranty, reducing the cost of service substantially.

Also keep in mind that manufacturers that offer this cost saving feature
also usually have a required service interval.

Lee
Hi-Soft - 09 Apr 2008 19:05 GMT
>> Yep I hear you... I'll stick with 12mth service intervals i
>> think...what's $100 a year...when it's a vital part of your gear...
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Lee

Yep..I think it a lot too...but I'm in Australia remember...scuba gear down
here is about 3 times  the US price.. so servincing seems to be inkeeping as
well..;( such is how it is down here... I often buy online for the US for
this reason..  I would love to buy locally...and het in kahoots with my LSD,
but when we are talking about a saving of around $1000 for my total diving
system....it's hard to be patriotic about it ;(

bc
Lee Bell - 10 Apr 2008 00:03 GMT
> Yep..I think it a lot too...but I'm in Australia remember...scuba gear
> down here is about 3 times  the US price.. so servincing seems to be
> inkeeping as well..;( such is how it is down here... I often buy online
> for the US for this reason..  I would love to buy locally...and het in
> kahoots with my LSD, but when we are talking about a saving of around
> $1000 for my total diving system....it's hard to be patriotic about it ;(

Understood. My only real point was to ensure you consider any savings you
may realize through a warranty that pays at least some of the cost of
servicing your equipment. My Scuba Pro regulators are about 9 years old now.
Over that period, the warranty picked up about $400 of the cost of servicing
each of them. On a long term basis, assuming you have your equipment
serviced periodically, such a warranty can actually make a more expensive
regulator a better deal than a less expensive one.

Just be sure you check.

Just out of curiosity, what's the shipping on a regulator from the US to
Australia and would you be interested in making an offer on a Sea Hornet in
good condition?  I won one in a drawing in Cozumel that was donated by an
Australian diver. I was really happy at the time. I'm less happy since I
found that it can't be serviced here.  Mind you, I'm not even sure I know
where I stored the regulator, but if you're interested, I might be willing
to see if I can dig it out.

Lee
Hi-Soft - 10 Apr 2008 02:04 GMT
Signature

cheers,
Hi-Soft


> Just be sure you check.
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Lee

Well shipping does vary a fair bit...depends on the total of gear you buy in
that shippment..  One reg ( 1st + 2nd stages ) would cost about $50 on it's
own...but with an occy, and a few bits and pieces it may only go up another
$10...so evens out...

As far as me buying a reg...I already have a set of Tusas on order....so
thanks anyway... I'd suggest ebay for sure though...

Remember, even if it is $50 to ship...the reg is probably 3 times the price
down here...so often still worth the extra postage..

bc
dechucka - 10 Apr 2008 06:38 GMT
>> Yep..I think it a lot too...but I'm in Australia remember...scuba gear
>> down here is about 3 times  the US price.. so servincing seems to be
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Lee

actual price  for gear is that not to different in Aus compared to US
particularly when you take into account duty etv. Add on warranty concerns
etc the buy from your LDS looks OK and you have a good relationship with
them  ( if they are fuckwits move on to the next one)
ZenDiver - 10 Apr 2008 11:06 GMT
>> Yep..I think it a lot too...but I'm in Australia remember...scuba gear
>> down here is about 3 times  the US price.. so servincing seems to be
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Lee

Actually while Scubapro's "parts for life" part of their warranty may
not necessarily stand in Aus.  It would be best to check whether this is
the case with your local dealer.  As far as I am aware it is not so in
the UK/Europe.
Lee Bell - 10 Apr 2008 12:19 GMT
> Actually while Scubapro's "parts for life" part of their warranty may not
> necessarily stand in Aus.  It would be best to check whether this is the
> case with your local dealer.  As far as I am aware it is not so in the
> UK/Europe.

Perhaps that's a good reason for selecting Apeks.

Lee

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