Lee,

I do not owe you an explanation of why and how I spent my money.  You much
rather should just focus on answering the question rather than flaming me
for how I spent my money.  I'm quite happy with my decision and you should
be too, for all that talk in this group about supporting the local dive
shop.  Whatever gear I purchased for also I did for my wife.  Much of the
various accessories were because of the ADP program.  But, I'll reply to the
various concerns this once.

Price reflects retail in my area.  Some of it I verified online for the
items I purchased (the retail value, not discounted values) the rest I
verified with the prices the LDS charges (where I purchased the items).  I
purchased nothing online.

Item  Price Qty. Total
Wetsuit (him)  $299.00  1 $299.00
Wetsuit (her)  $249.00  1 $249.00
Gloves  $45.00  2 $90.00
Boots  $53.00  2 $106.00
Mask  $60.00  4 $240.00
Snorkel  $35.00  4 $140.00
Hood  $49.00  1 $49.00
Belt  $25.00  1 $25.00
Weights  $40.00  2 $80.00
BC (him)  $685.00  1 $685.00
BC (her)  $649.00  1 $649.00
Tank (HP St. 80)  $368.00  4 $1,472.00
Tank (LP St. 80)  $149.00  2 $298.00
Dive Computer  $690.00  2 $1,380.00
Light (main)  $79.00  2 $158.00
Light (secondary)  $49.00  2 $98.00
Light (mini)  $24.00  2 $48.00
Knife (main)  $99.00  2 $198.00
Knife (smaller spare)  $69.00  2 $138.00
Fins (Main split)  $199.00  2 $398.00
Fins (Spare Twin Jet)  $99.00  2 $198.00 (because I lost a main split
exiting the ocean but found it the next day)
Fin Strap (spring)  $89.00  4 $356.00
Mask Strap (q-strap)  $24.00  2 $48.00
PC Cable  $120.00  1 $120.00
Regulator  $549.00  2 $1,098.00
Octo  $99.00  2 $198.00
F-Aid kit  $18.00  1 $18.00
Safety tube  $20.00  2 $40.00
Dive Flag & related  $60.00  1 $60.00 (because ADP required it)
Signaling air horn  $60.00  2 $120.00
water proof small container  $16.00  3 $48.00
Gear bag (akona pack)  $169.00  2 $338.00
Gear bag (mesh)  $69.00  2 $138.00
Dive slate  $20.00  2 $40.00
Dive slate (arm strapped)  $20.00  1 $20.00
Whistle & Mirror  $24.00  2 $48.00
Lanyard  $24.00  3 $72.00
Retractor  $35.00  2 $70.00
Fish of California  $20.00  1 $20.00
Tank light  $14.00  2 $28.00
Dive shorts  $25.00  1 $25.00
Mask defog  $8.00  2 $16.00
Wetsuit glide  $10.00  2 $20.00
Scooter  $799.00  1 $799.00 (because wanted one)

Total    $10,738.00 + 7.75% tax: $11,570.20 (estimated standard retail for
the items I specifically purchased).

I paid $3,982 x 2 total.  I'd say I saved about 30%.  I did the scooter
because I dive with people that use them for some locations and wanted to
join them.  I don't regret that I did.

In addition I paid $365 x 2 for lessons and $450 x 2 for ADP program.

Just about everyone I dive with has a Cobra and like it.  I don't know
whether its their primary or not.  Most of my dive buddies actually have
more than one dive computer while some only use analog and watches.
Everyone had a Cobra, everyone liked it, some recommended it, I purchased
it.  No one had complaints about it.

3 of my dive buddies actually use Steel 100's and only on two occasions used
120's when I only have 80's.  I got sick of having to switch tanks while
they still have significant amounts remaining in their tanks.  Granted,
their 120's were heavy, I'd still like to enjoy extra breathing time when
I'm with them.  When diving with my wife or others using 80's I'll use 80's.
One dive buddy uses twin tanks but I can't imagine myself doing that.

Again, some of the people I dived with have nite riders and I really like
them.  My boss has that and dive rite HID which I haven't seen in person but
they seem approximately the same thing.  Granted, these particular people
are cave/tech divers but doesn't matter, I like the nite rider better than
the lights I have so I'd like to get one.  Sometimes I can have a grip
problem so I really don't like holding lights, rather hand mount or mask
mount (prefer hand mount).  Granted, I may not need to spend $250-499 for
that purpose, but I like the HID's and will get some.

I never heard of the pelican and at this time am not looking at my increased
lighting capabilities.  When I am ready to spend the money I'll do my
research.  Also, since most dive shops I've been to don't carry everything,
if I don't see it (at the shop or with a buddy) I won't consider it because
I'll have no way of knowing whether its worthy my spending or not.

It is an oversight of mine that I didn't purchase a backup earlier or a dive
watch and relying too much on my computer.  It is a problem that I'm solving
and, the specific enquiry in my OP was asking for a good analog console to
use as a backup.  When I'm ready to purchase a dive watch I will at that
time research my options.  My question was not stating or implying that I'm
for or against dive watches, simply that I wasn't asking for one.
Researching will take time and I want to dive this week in a remote location
not anywhere near a dive shop I know about so I'd rather an analog for now.
I was asking about a good analog guage.  Because I don't intend to use the
analog very often, I wanted it to be priced accordingly.  What was your
problem with that?  What about that makes me a troll?

I do not need to explain my every motive to you but you have no problem
twisting and reading between lines that aren't there to do what?  Call me a
troll?  Hmmpphh.

I realize that everyone reveres you in this group and that you have plenty
of experience that might be able to benefit us "newer" divers with only 50
or so dives under our belt but rather than inciting hard feeling why don't
you just answer the question.  Now I've spent all this time reading about
how much of a troll I am because I don't match your idea of... whatever it
is that bother you about me and then digging up my receipts so I can track
the items of my gear to show you what I could have paid vs. what I did pay
at the dive shop my first 6 weeks diving.  I'm sure you'll find something
wrong with my gear because you seem like the kind of person that must have
the last word but perhaps I just read you the wrong way.

So can you answer my original question already, please?

I'm still wary to purchase life support equipment on EBay though I don't
have a problem purchasing used.  I prefer new, however.

In any case, I *could* buy any used analog console I want but I didn't.
Instead I opted to ask around in this group for a recommendation on a good,
durable product rather than taking my chances with something I shouldn't
have.  Asking in this group might have been a mistake.  I'll resume in
inquiring next time I meet at the dive club.

Thanks,
Shawn

 The Vytec is multi-gas.

Check out the Citizen Hyper Aqualand.  It's a good dive watch and has a
built in depth gauge, dive timer, thermometer, etc.  It comes with a docking
station and software to download to your computer.  Last time I looked, MSRP
was around $500, but it was available with only a little shopping, for about
half that.  I've had one of them for close to 15 years.  I was given a
second one that I use when the first one goes in for battery changes.

Lee

<

Yeah, no kidding.  PT Barnum was right.

A 30 year fixed @ 6% on $1M = $6K/month, which is still $1900 short of
the $7964 you claimed to have spent.  I don't doubt that one can find a
million dollar home in Akron, Ohio (your IP address for the past
several months), but since $500K buys a 4000 square foot home, begs the
question of economic wisdom.  If you're doing it for the tax deduction,
at best you're spending $2 to save $1.

In any case, its irrelevant:  you're simply looking for the most
cheap-a.s solution you can, without having to dip into your Housing
allotment, Luxury Car Lease payment, etc.  Got it.

To be honest, that's what you *think* you need.

If your problem is an unreliable dive computer, then that's what you
should focus on fixing.   Afterall, you wouldn't add a 5th wheel to
your car if you had a flat, do you?  No, we take the flat off and put a
replacement tire on.

If it were me, I'd go back to this diveshop where I've already dropped
a chunk of change and ask the owner if he'll give a credit on this
questionable-reliability Cobra and use it to buy a Sunnto Vyper with
its gage/compass console.

The Vyper's MSRP should be a bit less than your Cobra, so the shop
should be willing, particularly  considering how much change you've
already dropped.  And it will be more reliable since it ditches the AI
bit.

And while there may be 'better' computers, if the dealer stocks the
Cobra, he also has the Vyper, plus since it uses the same software code
as the Cobra, you won't run into the "different software --> different
allowed runtimes" confusion when diving with your wife who still has
her Cobra.

The general rule of thumb of the recommendations you'll find here is
something "utilitarian", not a Rolex.  Expensive fancy divewatches are
for poseurs.

I've been diving with cheap Casio's for decades, and now find G-Shocks
on the expensive side (and ugly).  My latest Casio is a 100m rated
solar-powered, which cost $40.  The solar power feature does save the
cost of battery replacement every few years, but more importantly, it
now doesn't have to be opened, which means no risk of a surprise flood
after battery servicing.

My model's probably discountined, but try Googling on "Casio
MDAS11H-4EV" for a similar example.

This has little to do with diving, but IMO, you need to start to push
out your horizon for planning, because you're risking messing up your
finances to the point where you won't be able to afford to dive.
Hopefully, we won't find half your gear on eBay in 6 months because you
have a BMW lease payment to make.

Exactly.  The answer right now is that regardless of how much 'nicer'
you think the Nite Riders are, if you can't afford it, you can't afford
it.  You've already dropped $150 per diver on the lights you have, so
you'll just have to "make due" for a year or two until you get your
household's finances in better order.  Yes, the message here is 'suck
it up' and stop whining about the toy you can't have right now.

There's only one answer to that.  It is:  "the FREE loaner that the
diveshop gives you".

Brick and Mortar stores survive today by offering better customer
service than you can get through an Internet Store.  One example of
this is in how they make it hassle-free when there's a problem.

If a diveshop where I've just dropped $8K won't give me a free loaner
for a broken down piece of *new* gear that I bought from them, it is:
(a) time to find a new diveshop, and  (b) time to let everyone know the
name of this diveshop so that they too can go elsewhere.

-hh

Don't expect understanding from the arrogant [envious] gasbags.

Discontinuity error (but I digress).

Same here.  My point was merely that when the problem is poor
reliability, a "backup" is temporary band-aid.  The remedy is to
replace it with something that _is_ reliable.

Understood, but that wasn't my point:

a) If you don't trust your gear after its more than 2 miles from the
 diveshop, then for all practical purposes, you have unreliable gear.

b Unreliable gear gets replaced, not used with a "backup".

c) Loaner gear is for when your *reliable* gear is being serviced.

-hh

I forgot this:
http://tdl.divebiz.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=74&products_id=101
330&zenid=635c180d6d061a381dde92ce57073329

If I use just guages, then a timer is all I need in a watch, right?  If I
use a real dive watch and just use an SPG guage instead of a console right?
Or, I can use a 3 piece console and a watch and have redundancy, right?  I'm
not sure what route I want to take, though.  I think, in the end, I'll go
for redundancy.
But that leads me to another question: if my dive computer dies on me again
at depth, I wouldn't have a backup unit with me and switch it under water,
would I?  I would think it'd be time to surface and switch out and go back
in?  But then if I had redundancy I wouldn't need to surface, just keep
going, as long as I know how much air pressure is remaining, no?  Or am I
confused...?  I'm sufficiently "spooked" to the point that I think it is a
bad idea to rely on a computer that integrates the PSI such that if the
computer dies again I'm left without PSI feedback.  Would I have a seperate
analog PSI guage just in case, that is already connected?

I looked at the Sherwood and Mosquito and the UWATEC bottom timer (as
recommended in various replies).  I'm trying to figure out what combination
would be best for me for the short term (3-6 months).  Everyone I know has
so many scuba devices, consoles, computers and watches that I think
eventually I'll get there too, one step at a time.

I was considering a ScubaPro 2 guage console earlier today at a dive shop I
just happened to notice in the middle of the city today and I didn't like
it.  It didn't have a compass or a thermo and cost $210 at that particular
shop + $49 for a quick disconnect (my normal dive shop I think has a
ScubaPro 3 guage that does have the thermo but for $195 - 10% because I'm a
club member there).  I'll check it out this weekend.

Thanks for the replies,
Shawn

That's a good deal indeed.  I was more interested in pure analog to use as
backup when/if dive computer is out of commission but this looks like a good
deal and at the very least the air pressure guage is analog and won't fail
on my if the computer dies.  I'm considering it.  It is also well priced
even for a computer.

Thanks,
Shawn

"Adam Helberg" <sendspamhere@yahee.com> pounded away at his keyboard
resulting in:

Most liveaboards I have been on have replacement items available.
Sometimes they charge rent, sometimes they don't.

Dan Bracuk
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.