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Scuba Forum / Scuba Equipment / November 2005inflatable pencil
what's the proper name for those big inflatable pencil thingies that you wave above your head if you get lost from the dive boat? I need to buy two such devices. Which one's are the best value for money? Do "dive flags" serve the same purpose? If so, what are the pros and cons of both? thanks > what's the proper name for those big inflatable pencil thingies that > you wave above your head if you get lost from the dive boat? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Do "dive flags" serve the same purpose? If so, what are the pros and > cons of both? Most of us call them Safety Sausages. And they don't do the same thing as a Dive Flag. The Dive Flag is supposed to (but often doesn't) warn boater that there are divers here and please don't run them over. It's flown whenever divers are in the water. The safety sausage (which is, I think, one particular brand name) is used when the diver has surfaced some place unexpected and needs to be seen by their own boat (or a rescuing boat) in order to be picked up. >> what's the proper name for those big inflatable pencil thingies that >> you wave above your head if you get lost from the dive boat? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Most of us call them Safety Sausages. > And they don't do the same thing as a Dive Flag. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > diver has surfaced some place unexpected and needs to be seen by their own > boat (or a rescuing boat) in order to be picked up. I beg to differ, a little. I have safety sausages, various size lift bags*, and the niftiest little folding dive flag: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7179614663&category=1300 I've used 'em all scores of times. The flag, while not as utilitarian as a bag or sausage, is, by an order of magnitude, the easiest to deploy and stow. If you've never seen or used one, it's 5-6 plastic tubes with a bungie down the middle, with velcro on the flag to keep it stowed. Just pop the velcro, and it snaps to attention like an early morning... Never mind. But anyway... you can (I do) bungie a fresh cyalume stick in the flag, it will still stow, and you can snap it at night, or if you have my luck, once it becomes nite... Easy to wave, easy to stow before the boat even gets there. As far as -just- a surface signaling device, I'd say it beats out anything except those Halcyon weather balloons disguised as a safety sausage (Big Alert Marker: 4.5' long, 40 lbs lift Super Big Alert Marker: 6' long, 52 lbs lift , don't forget the required reel/spool) *And flares, mirrors, strobes and dye markers (but everyone gets pissy when the flares land in the boat....just kidding). > As far as -just- a surface signaling device, I'd say it (the dive flag) > beats out anything except those Halcyon weather balloons disguised as a > safety sausage (Big Alert Marker: 4.5' long, 40 lbs lift > Super Big Alert Marker: 6' long, 52 lbs lift , don't forget the required > reel/spool) The boat I use for my annual spearfishing trips in the open waters to, from and around the Dry Tortugas, requires a safety sausage and recommends a flag specifically because it is easy to wave. Something moving is much easier to see than something stationary, no matter what the color. For this particular use, the pole is not needed. The speargun serves the same purpose. The captain of the boat has been quite clear. He likes my Halcyon Big Alert Marker better than the flat. I do too. It's a lot easier to wave an air filled sausage high above my head than a speargun and flag. One of these days, I may get one of the 6 footers. When it comes to being seen, bigger is definitely better. BTW, a reel is only needed if you plan on deploying the marker from below the suface. That's not a common practice in the US. It is common in the UK. For a while, I attached a 20 foot piece of line directly to the marker and rolled it up inside of the marker when stowed. I tied knots at 10 and 15 feet because 10, 15 and 20 feet are all levels that I, on occasion spend a few minutes. I've carried a spool for it on occasion, but have not yet had a reason to use one with it. These days, I don't bother. Hooking my speargun on the clip helps ensure that the gun returns to the boat with me and makes it easy to keep the marker upright as well. > *And flares, mirrors, strobes and dye markers (but everyone gets pissy > when the flares land in the boat....just kidding). I've been known to carry flares, a mirror and a strobe/flashlight on occasion, but only when I'm in an area where being missed by the boat the first time would be a very big problem. Lee >>And they don't do the same thing as a Dive Flag. >> [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > except those Halcyon weather balloons disguised as a safety sausage (Big > Alert Marker: 4.5' long, 40 lbs lift Yeah, these things are great - but not the easiest things to deploy from underwater - I'm still trying to get this right. Mostly I just get it about 10% inflated before I have to let it go... Not the greatest lift devices either, because the vent is at the bottom so only really useful for inflate and release lifts. But highly visible, won't accidently deflate and has radar reflective strip - so excellent for what they're actually designed for.  Signature"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." - Thomas Jefferson Anything that small isn't going reflect enough radar to be useful down in the surface clutter. They do reflect light well though. >>>And they don't do the same thing as a Dive Flag. >>> [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > But highly visible, won't accidently deflate and has radar reflective > strip - so excellent for what they're actually designed for. >> As far as -just- a surface signaling device, I'd say it beats out >> anything except those Halcyon weather balloons disguised as a safety >> sausage (Big Alert Marker: 4.5' long, 40 lbs lift > Yeah, these things are great - but not the easiest things to deploy from > underwater - I'm still trying to get this right. Mostly I just get it > about 10% inflated before I have to let it go... Except for a blob with it's on gas supply, can you do better with other designs? > Not the greatest lift devices either, because the vent is at the bottom so > only really useful for inflate and release lifts. Interesting point. > But highly visible, won't accidently deflate and has radar reflective > strip - so excellent for what they're actually designed for. That's why I carry it. As big as it is, it's also a passable surface float. Lee >>>As far as -just- a surface signaling device, I'd say it beats out >>>anything except those Halcyon weather balloons disguised as a safety [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Except for a blob with it's on gas supply, can you do better with other > designs? No, but the problem is finding opportunities to practice. Still, I'm doing a tech course fairly soon hopefully so that should fix it. Signature"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin >>>> As far as -just- a surface signaling device, I'd say it beats out >>>> anything except those Halcyon weather balloons disguised as a safety [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > No, but the problem is finding opportunities to practice. Still, I'm > doing a tech course fairly soon hopefully so that should fix it. Add the air from your BC/drysuit - then if you are holding it, you automatically retain neutral buoyancy - you just have to be ready to add some to your BC/suit when you send it on it's way... Dan. >>>>> As far as -just- a surface signaling device, I'd say it beats out >>>>> anything except those Halcyon weather balloons disguised as a [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > automatically retain neutral buoyancy - you just have to be ready to add > some to your BC/suit when you send it on it's way... You can't with the Halcyon - it's a closed system that you can only inflate from either an LP hose or orally. Signature"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin > Yeah, these things are great - but not the easiest things to deploy from > underwater - I'm still trying to get this right. Mostly I just get it > about 10% inflated before I have to let it go... Others may have different techniques, but I make myself neagative enough that I have to kick medium hard to maintain depth. I do not see how one can shoot a back when neutral. > Not the greatest lift devices either, because the vent is at the bottom so > only really useful for inflate and release lifts. You mean open, or vented? Many bags are closed with a top vent. My Halcyon 80# bag is. > But highly visible, won't accidently deflate and has radar reflective > strip - so excellent for what they're actually designed for. Good luck with that radar thing. >> what's the proper name for those big inflatable pencil thingies that >> you wave above your head if you get lost from the dive boat? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Most of us call them Safety Sausages. The technical name for one of those thingies is a "blob". (or if you're a welsh mate of mine a "blobby"). You might however find one at a shop by asking for a SMB (surface marker buoy) or DSMB (delayed surface marker buoy. The delayed comes from keeping it deflated and rolled up until you need it (usually when you're coming up so that the boat can find you). A SMB is towed for the entire dive and may be used when either the surface cover need to follow you the whole time, or there is a significant danger from surface traffic. In your case, it sounds like you are asking for a DSMB. Both of them are usually attached to a reel so that you can keep a minimum amount of line between you and the buoy at whatever depth you are at. A dive flag can mean one of two things. 1. A flag that goes on a boat or on top of a SMB to warn other water users that a diver is in the water (either red with a white diagonal line, or a blue and white A flag). or 2. A very brightly colored flag about 50cmx50cm or bigger on a collapsable pole that you can unfold, extend and use to attract attention on the surface. While diving it would usually be kept attached on your cylinder by a couple of loops of bungie cord. Personally I tend to carry at least one main DSMB and reel, a backup DSMB in a pocket, and a flag bungied onto the back of my cylinder. I would recommend that you start with a DSMB and reel, and find someone to teach you how to launch it below the surface. How you inflate it will depend on the model but I have seen regulator inflated ones, low pressure inflated ones (BC hose) and self inflating ones (these can be single use inflation cylinders, or refillable ones). Whichever you get, practice with it in safe calm situations before you end up in a situation where you actually need it. You may want to tell the boat captain/shore cover that you are going to use it if it is not standard practice where you dive - in the UK it is normal enough, but some places assume that if you use one it is automatically an emergency, so just cover yourself... Hope this helps... Dan. Mr Fish <SORRY_NO_SPAM@NOSPAM.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :what's the proper name for those big inflatable pencil thingies that :you wave above your head if you get lost from the dive boat? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] :Do "dive flags" serve the same purpose? If so, what are the pros and :cons of both? Big orange garbage bags work better. Safety sausages often fall over when there is even the slightest bit of wind or wave. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > what's the proper name for those big inflatable pencil thingies that > you wave above your head if you get lost from the dive boat? Safety sausage. > I need to buy two such devices. Which one's are the best value for > money? Opinions vary. I have a couple that are about 3 feet long and about 3 inches in diameter. They are fairly inexpensive and adequate as a signal device for my local diving. They meet the requirements of most operators in resort areas. They do not, however, have an overpressure valve and, therefore, are not suitable for deployment at depth. Some, very similar and a bit more expensive, have an overpressure valve and can be deployed at depth. The one I normally carry is 6 feet long and about 6 inches in diameter, with an overpressure valve and reflective tape at the top. It can be deployed at depth and even has a sturdy ring for attaching a line. It can be inflated orally or by being plugged into a low pressure inflation hose. For safety reasons, the barb does not lock into the inflator hose. It's several times the cost of the smaller options, but many times as visible and versatile. > Do "dive flags" serve the same purpose? If so, what are the pros and > cons of both? Some dive flags, those required for non boat diving in Florida, for example, are intended only to show where a diver is. They're not particularly good as signal devices because they can't be raised very high above the surface. Other flags are intended as signal devices, complete with some way to raise them above the surface. Some spearfishermen, for example, attach flags to their guns, allowing them to be waved well above the surface. None of the flags, however, have the versatility that my large sausage does. Lee > what's the proper name for those big inflatable pencil thingies that > you wave above your head if you get lost from the dive boat? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > thanks If you have to ask the question then you need more or better training. A DSMB (delayed surface marker buoy) can save your life and also potentially kill you. TonyH >>what's the proper name for those big inflatable pencil thingies that >>you wave above your head if you get lost from the dive boat? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > A DSMB (delayed surface marker buoy) can save your life and also potentially > kill you. It sounds like the OP just wanted one to inflate and wave at the surface, which is a pretty simple task. But yes, you need to practice lots before trying to send one of these up from 15m (more than I've had, I think :-) Signature"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin > what's the proper name for those big inflatable pencil thingies that > you wave above your head if you get lost from the dive boat? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > thanks Which one is a personal perferance. I have two different kinds. One (the one I prefer) is by SeaQuest and attaches to one of there BCs vents. To deploy it you pull a cord and it gets its air directly from the BC. When attached to the BC it has its own storage pouch. The other one I have is a simple sausage that you have to manually inflate. It works OK for my Zeagle BC since I cannot attach the SeaQuest sausage to it. Dennis Dennis Willson <giganews@taz-mania.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :Which one is a personal perferance. I have two different kinds. One (the :one I prefer) is by SeaQuest and attaches to one of there BCs vents. To :deploy it you pull a cord and it gets its air directly from the BC. When :attached to the BC it has its own storage pouch. This is something you deploy while on the surface? I'm having difficulty figuring out how it would work. If you deploy this while on the surface, is the attachment point above or below the waterline? If below, how will it get air since most of the BC air will be above? If above, how do you keep it from flopping over? Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. > Dennis Willson <giganews@taz-mania.com> pounded away at his keyboard > resulting in: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > This is something you deploy while on the surface? I'm having > difficulty figuring out how it would work. It is for deployment while on the surface. IIRC, it attaches to your BC's right rear dump valve (probably brand-limited), so it draws its air from the BC. They've apparently put a one-way valve on it to prevent sausage droop. FWIW, I don't know if by this attachment point it makes your BC's RR dump valve no longer available or not. It is advertised as 'hands free', but what I wonder about is how much of a pain it is to "undeploy" the thing while on the surface before climbing back onboard the chase boat. -hh > > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >-hh > It's really easy to undeploy. Yes it's brand limited unfortunetly. Dennis -hh <{NOSPAM-rm_to_reply}rec-scuba2005@huntzinger.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :It is for deployment while on the surface. : :IIRC, it attaches to your BC's right rear dump valve (probably :brand-limited), so it draws its air from the BC. They've apparently put :a one-way valve on it to prevent sausage droop. In that case, I don't see it actually working. If the diver is at the surface, the BC will be partially submerged. The air will all be above the water, and the dump valve will be below. Opening that valve will not cause any air to flow. Not the way I see it anyhoo. Dan Bracuk If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. >-hh <{NOSPAM-rm_to_reply}rec-scuba2005@huntzinger.com> pounded away at >his keyboard resulting in: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- > The BCD actually has "positive pressure" if it's holding you at the surface. If you don't have enough to fully inflate the sausage (you do) just hit the inflater for a short burst. After it's full, there's a valve to keep the air in it and you can let the air out of the BC. There's a seperate purge to deflate the sausage. I have one, trust me it works just fine. Dennis > :IIRC, it attaches to your BC's right rear dump valve (probably > :brand-limited), so it draws its air from the BC. They've apparently put [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the water, and the dump valve will be below. Opening that valve will > not cause any air to flow. I don't know how the thing works, but I do know you are mistaken. Think it through again. If what you are saying were true, the gas would not exit your BCD if you pulled the shoulder dump at the surface. It does. Lee He referred to a rear dump which is typically at the lower extreme on the BC. When at the surface it should be under water. There is a chance the water pressure would be enough to reduce the air flow. The shoulder dump is at the highest point and dumps because of the water pressure (squeeze) exerted on the BC. As a side note the low rear dump is intended to be used when you are in a head down position while diving or in an inverted emergency. > > :IIRC, it attaches to your BC's right rear dump valve (probably >> :brand-limited), so it draws its air from the BC. They've apparently put [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Lee He certainly did. I now understand, and share Dan's confusion. Sorry Dan, my bad. For it to operate off BCD gas via a valve located close to a lower rear dump, the BCD would have to be full, or very nearly full for it to work. That would work OK for my 18 lb wing which, if it filled at the surface at all, is filled to the point that the overpressure valve releases, but it would seem inconvenient for some of the larger lift wings and jacket style BCDs. Lee > He referred to a rear dump which is typically at the lower extreme on the > BC. When at the surface it should be under water. There is a chance the [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> >> Lee |
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