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Scuba Forum / Scuba Equipment / November 2005

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Advice on BCD's

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jj - 10 Oct 2005 19:42 GMT
My son and I are in the process of getting certified.  I am looking to
purchase a new BCD for him on his birthday. Any suggestions on what to buy
and what not to buy.  I mean in BCD's. ex. I am looking at a Zeagle Escape
BC. or the ATLAS BCD, reason's why these vest is price. We only plan to dive
30 to 50 ft. max in both water warm and cold (no ice diving). Thanks for any
advice you may provide.
John
Lee Bell - 10 Oct 2005 20:12 GMT
> My son and I are in the process of getting certified.  I am looking to
> purchase a new BCD for him on his birthday. Any suggestions on what to buy
> and what not to buy.  I mean in BCD's. ex. I am looking at a Zeagle Escape
> BC. or the ATLAS BCD, reason's why these vest is price. We only plan to
> dive 30 to 50 ft. max in both water warm and cold (no ice diving). Thanks
> for any advice you may provide.

First, forget about 30 to 50 feet max.  There's no way you'll stay that
shallow if you dive enough to make it worth your while to buy your own BCD.

Second, how old is your son and how fast is he growing.  BCDs are not cheap
and it's a shame to buy one that he'll quickly outgrow.

Many of us here have given up on jacket style BCDs in favor of a metal plate
with a harness and a wing for buoyancy control.  This configuration is more
streamlined, more versatile and holds the tank more securely than any of the
jacket style BCDs I'm aware of.  Depending on whether it's made of stainless
or aluminum, it can also move weight off the belt and to the center of
buoyancy, making good trim and buoyancy control easier to achieve.  Two of
the better known manufacturers of plate and wing systems are Halcyon and
Dive Rite.  You might want to take a look at them before you decide on
something else.

If you must buy a jacket style bcd, look for a name you recognize.  I've
never heard of Atlas.  Zeagle, on the other hand, is a known name in the
industry, as are Scuba Pro, SeaQuest, US Divers and a lot of others.

Lee
Charlie Hammond - 10 Oct 2005 20:56 GMT
>> My son and I are in the process of getting certified.  I am looking to
>> purchase a new BCD for him on his birthday. Any suggestions on what to buy
>> and what not to buy.  ...
..
>Many of us here have given up on jacket style BCDs in favor of a metal plate
>with a harness and a wing for buoyancy control.  This configuration is more
>streamlined, more versatile and holds the tank more securely than any of the
>jacket style BCDs I'm aware of.  ...
..

I agree emphatically with Lee on this.

Please at least investigate and learn more about the "Backplate and Wing"
setup that Lee describes.  Whatever you decide, you will almost certainly
learn something that will be worth the effort.

You can start at www.diveriteexpress.com/bcs.

Look at the "Basic" harness; the cross-chest strap on the "Delux" harness
is unnecessary and can be trouble prone.

For most purposes, the Travel Wing or Venture Wing will probably be the best
choice for your first wing.

Other manufacturers make similar plates and wings.  Right now I think
that DiveRite is the best combination of price and quality.

Welcome to SCUBA diving.  
You and your son have many wonderfull experineces ahead!

Signature

     Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USA
         (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
     All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

Irene - 10 Oct 2005 23:33 GMT
"Lee Bell" < wrote in message news:80z2f.11214

> First, forget about 30 to 50 feet max.  There's no way you'll stay that
> shallow if you dive enough to make it worth your while to buy your own
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Lee

I'll 3rd that vote. I have a Scuba Pro Back inflate and love it. I also dry
dive with the Halcyon BP/W. Love that to. Back inflates and BP/W are both
much better (comfort and fit wise) than the jacket style BC. The advantage
of the backplate is that it will fit with anything you wear and there is no
chest squeeze.

But be aware that many instructors put you in a jacket and then convince you
that it's your safest option. At least that has been my experience
personally as well as from reading forums. Try them out yourself and don't
be influenced by any instructor who tries to convince you that anything but
a jacket will push your face into the water at the surface. They are just
repeating stuff they've heard.

Also agree with the comment about buying a know brand even if that means
spending a little more. In the end you will be glad.

Irene
VK - 13 Oct 2005 15:02 GMT
> I'll 3rd that vote. I have a Scuba Pro Back inflate and love it. I also dry
> dive with the Halcyon BP/W. Love that to. Back inflates and BP/W are both
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> a jacket will push your face into the water at the surface. They are just
> repeating stuff they've heard.

I have to say that I disagree with the universal "buy a backplate"
response.
And before anyone jumps down my throat trying to convince me of the
merits of a backplate: I have 2 Halcyon backplates, 1 set up for my dry
suit, one for warm water.  I only wear backplates.  I even teach open
water in a backplate.  So yeah, it is safe to say that I like
backplates.

But what is good for me isnt necessary good for everyone else.  For a
lot of people, a BCD with pockets may be a good idea - for stashing
fish cards, safety sausages, etc.  If you are diving in tropical
weather, a jacket-style BCD is more comfy as well - lots of nice
padding.  And if you size it properly, there is no such thing as chest
squeeze.  Lighter to carry as well, for those who are going to be
traveling.

IMO, for a vast majority of people, a traditional BCD works just as
well as anything else.  A backplate/harness setup for someone who dives
occasionally in tropical weather is overkill - a solution for a problem
that does not exist.

Cheers,
Vandit
utnapistim - 14 Oct 2005 12:00 GMT
Check out <a href="http://www.scubal.com">scubaL</a> (formerly known as
tripple-L). they have the best of prices, but not all of their BCDs are
CE certified.

They have stab-jackets, back-inflation and BP + wing setups (i think).
I'm currently using a back-inflated bought from them and it's great.

There is not a very big difference between back-inflation and
stab-jackets but there definitely IS a difference. I found
back-inflated more confortable (and haven't used BP/W yet so I can't
tell you anything about them).

Also, if you're overweighted of poorly trimmed in a back-inflated BC it
might put you on your face at the surface (I assume it's the same for
BP/W).

cheers,
utnapistim
Dan Bracuk - 10 Oct 2005 22:48 GMT
"jj" <jj@dd.net> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in:
:My son and I are in the process of getting certified.  I am looking to
:purchase a new BCD for him on his birthday. Any suggestions on what to buy
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
:advice you may provide.
:John

There's lotsa choices out there.  I am currently a back inflate style.
It's something like the backplate and wings Lee and Charlie mentioned,
but, without the metal.  I like it probably as much as they like
their's.  

Features that I find nice are:
1.  A small zippered pocket in the cumberbund.
2.  Weight pockets, means you might not need a weightbelt.
3.  Quick disconnects for easier doffing and donning.

Dan Bracuk
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.
Adam Helberg - 11 Oct 2005 00:19 GMT
> My son and I are in the process of getting certified.  I am looking to purchase a
> new BCD for him on his birthday. Any suggestions on what to buy and what not to
> buy.  I mean in BCD's. ex. I am looking at a Zeagle Escape BC. or the ATLAS BCD,
> reason's why these vest is price. We only plan to dive 30 to 50 ft. max in both
> water warm and cold (no ice diving). Thanks for any advice you may provide.
> John

I have the Zeagle Escape and now use it instead of my backplate/wing and am quite
pleased with it.  I've used it for travel and for local diving Southern Calif. Once
you know the right size you can buy one discounted at LeisurePro.com.

Adam
Flea Dog - 11 Oct 2005 02:10 GMT
> > My son and I are in the process of getting certified.  I am looking to purchase a
> > new BCD for him on his birthday. Any suggestions on what to buy and what not to
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Adam

BE CAREFUL!!

Leisure Pro sells grey market Zeagle products.
Their merchandise is NOT covered under Zeagle warranty!
Adam Helberg - 11 Oct 2005 05:45 GMT
>> "jj" <jj@dd.net> wrote in message
> news:NCy2f.6666$oa.4655@read2.cgocable.net...
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> Leisure Pro sells grey market Zeagle products.
> Their merchandise is NOT covered under Zeagle warranty!
Are you a competitor?  I bought two from LeisurePro and both came in perfect
condition in Zeagle boxes with all the manuals and hoses, and if there is a problem
you can send it back.

Adam
Irene - 11 Oct 2005 06:57 GMT
"Adam Helberg" <sendspamhere@yahee.com> wrote in message news:hrH2f.9246ns
on what

> Are you a competitor?  I bought two from LeisurePro and both came in
> perfect condition in Zeagle boxes with all the manuals and hoses, and if
> there is a problem you can send it back.
>
> Adam

Leisurepro is not an authorized dealer for a lot of what they sell. They
offer their own warranty which isn't bad but the buyer needs to be aware
that specifically regs and BCs don't come with the manufacturers warranty. I
buy stuff from and I love their prices. But I bought my ScubaPro stuff from
a dive shop who is an authorized dealer (besides, LP doesn't sell it). I
wanted the lifetime warranty from Scubapro so that was a factor for me.

But I bought my Sea and Sea digital underwater camera and strobe (and
everything else) from them and couldn't be happier. I didn't care about the
warranty.

I don't know how important it is to get a warranty on a BC. That's a
personal choice I guess. But with the corrugated air dump being so fragile,
I personally wanted the manuf. warranty so I could get it repaired by them.

Irene
Adam Helberg - 11 Oct 2005 16:29 GMT
> "Adam Helberg" <sendspamhere@yahee.com> wrote in message news:hrH2f.9246ns on what
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Irene

That's a fair assessment. The Zeagle warranty covers manufacturing defects, not
normal wear and tear, so I'm not sure if the rubber inflator hose breaks down in a
couple of years if it would be repaired free of charge.  I recall there was a $200
difference in price between LP and local dive shop per BC so it made no sense to me
buy locally.

Adam
Brian - 12 Oct 2005 07:45 GMT
I buy my Zeagle gear from http://scubatoys.com.

They will match any price from LP and give you a factory warranty. And 10%
discount if you say you are a member of http://scubaboard.com. I wish my LDS
was this way. :)

I got the Brigade BC

Signature

---------------------------------------
Brian Dye
brian@tech-home.com
http://tech-home.com
---------------------------------------

>> "Adam Helberg" <sendspamhere@yahee.com> wrote in message
>> news:hrH2f.9246ns on what
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>
> Adam
VK - 12 Oct 2005 15:21 GMT
> I don't know how important it is to get a warranty on a BC.

Not very.  Leisurepro's in-store warranty is as good as the original
manufacturer warranty.

I've had one of my Beuchat VX10s blow the first stage diaphragm, and
they fixed it and sent it back within a week.  No charge.  It's been 4
years and about 500 dives since, and it's been working fine.

Vandit
VK - 12 Oct 2005 15:17 GMT
> My son and I are in the process of getting certified.  I am looking to
> purchase a new BCD for him on his birthday. Any suggestions on what to buy
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> advice you may provide.
> John

I've had really good luck with the Seaquest Pro QD BCDs.  They've very
comfy, allow you to adjust your trim thanks to the weight pockets near
the shoulders and last quite a while.

As a cheaper alternative, the Oceanic OceanPro BCDs and the Aqualung
Wave BCDs are very good and functional BCDs, albeit no-frills.  We use
them in our shop, and everybody loves them.  

Cheers,
Vandit
Adam Helberg - 12 Oct 2005 22:08 GMT
>> My son and I are in the process of getting certified.  I am looking to
>> purchase a new BCD for him on his birthday. Any suggestions on what to buy
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Cheers,
> Vandit

Here's what I look for in a BC for recreational use:

comfortable fit, simplicity without excessive bulk, light weight for travel, rear
buoyancy and storage pockets. I also like integrated weights as I don't wear a weight
belt well, and double tank bands as I've seen tanks slip out. Double tank bands also
allow placement of band trim weights on both bands.

Adam
chilly - 13 Oct 2005 07:59 GMT
(snip) We use
> them in our shop, and everybody loves them.
>
> Cheers,
> Vandit

Hey Vandit!!  How's everything?  Are you still in the Andaman's?
VK - 13 Oct 2005 14:02 GMT
> Hey Vandit!!  How's everything?  Are you still in the Andaman's?

Heya C -

Everything is good.  Just got back from a month in Koh Tao - 2 of my
staff guys were doing their IDC, and I was lending moral support.
First time back since when I met you there.

Also explored life as a stroke, diving some 50m wrecks with twin
steels, rented bungee wings and a 3mm shorty.  There's a whole lot of
really nice deep wrecks that a couple of tech folks are discovering in
those waters, and I'm going back next year with my own kit to do those
in more detail (mucking around at 50m on rented kit is fine, but if i
am going to be on mix, i want my own stuff).

But until then, the gentle waters of the Andamans call.  Lisson lasses
looking up to their instructor, lots of beach barbecues, etc. etc.
Tough life  - some has got to live it.

You and the rest of rec.scuba crew gonna visit or what?

Vandit
Alan Street - 14 Oct 2005 15:18 GMT
> > Hey Vandit!!  How's everything?  Are you still in the Andaman's?
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Vandit

I'm planning to be in Singapore next month, and was thinking of a side
trip for some diving. How long would it take me to reach you?

Alan
chilly - 15 Oct 2005 10:12 GMT
> ?
> ? You and the rest of rec.scuba crew gonna visit or what?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I'm planning to be in Singapore next month, and was thinking of a side
> trip for some diving. How long would it take me to reach you?

Here's a quote from a Vandit post, in response to my asking a similar
question in January 2005:

"Fly to Calcutta or Chennai, and then fly onwards from there to Port
Blair.   You'll need an Indian visa before you fly, and the permit for
the Andamans you can get on arrival.
www.diveindia.com --> click on Planning Your Trip for all the gory
details.  Click on DIVE Havelock for details on the island, places to
stay and so on.

Also, email me at vkalia00 at yahoo dot com, if you have any questions
as well"

I think this is his website:  http://www.diveindia.com/general.html

Have fun!  And if you get over there, let me know how it goes.
VK - 15 Oct 2005 13:07 GMT
> Have fun!  And if you get over there, let me know how it goes.

It'll go great.  If not, we'll fill his tank with pure CO for the last
dive.  So it'll have been great

:)

Vandit

(Send an email out, as I didnt want to come across as advertising on
the NG.  What happened to scuba discussions here & on rec.scuba,
though?  Even a DIR-vs-Mike-Gray slugfest would be welcome)
chilly - 15 Oct 2005 18:54 GMT
> > Have fun!  And if you get over there, let me know how it goes.
>
> It'll go great.  If not, we'll fill his tank with pure CO for the last
> dive.  So it'll have been great

That can't be "great" for return business.

;^)

> Vandit
>
> (Send an email out, as I didnt want to come across as advertising on
> the NG.  What happened to scuba discussions here & on rec.scuba,
> though?  Even a DIR-vs-Mike-Gray slugfest would be welcome)

It's within the charter that you can attach a website and email to your sig
line.  It's advertising by way of post that is frowned upon.
So amend your sig line.  No one will mind, especially if your posts are
filled with info about diving and/equip, which they always are.

As for discussions . . .near as I can tell people got sick of all the
political/gun fights and went away.  It is rare for new posts about diving
to come up.  When they do, the regulars are ready, willing and able to
discuss diving.  The regulars have just discussed most diving to the nth
degree over the years and there seems to be little point in rehashing just
to amuse themselves.

There's a mildly interesting discussion regarding DIR-centricity on
rec.scuba just now.  Thread title is "I thought this was a SCUBA forum".  Of
course, it has also degenerated but in an amusing way.
chilly - 15 Oct 2005 10:14 GMT
> > Hey Vandit!!  How's everything?  Are you still in the Andaman's?
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> staff guys were doing their IDC, and I was lending moral support.
> First time back since when I met you there.

Still a lot of fun I'll bet.  How are the buckets?

Red Bull finally made it to my neck of the woods about 6 months ago.

> Also explored life as a stroke, diving some 50m wrecks with twin
> steels, rented bungee wings and a 3mm shorty.  There's a whole lot of
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> looking up to their instructor, lots of beach barbecues, etc. etc.
> Tough life  - some has got to live it.

And so it might just as well be you.  :^)

> You and the rest of rec.scuba crew gonna visit or what?

You are still on my list . . but it always depends on timing when I'm in
Singapore.  Seasons, etc.

Glad to hear all is well.

chilly
Douglas W. - 15 Oct 2005 13:03 GMT
> You are still on my list . .

> chilly

 <cough>

 How do you keep track?
Adam Helberg - 15 Oct 2005 16:12 GMT
>> > Hey Vandit!!  How's everything?  Are you still in the Andaman's?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> chilly

     pretty nigh in - not properly born, till flood. Hes a going out and a half. My
friend Copperfield will perhaps do me the favour to
     my dear. We must learn to act the play out. We must live enough to fill me with
a sort of wondering pity for the unfortunate

     lurking suspicion even, that he died of secret love; though I must

     I had never done more than glance at the house, as I went by with
     that name;
chilly - 15 Oct 2005 18:46 GMT
>       pretty nigh in - not properly born, till flood. Hes a going out and a half. My
> friend Copperfield will perhaps do me the favour to
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>       I had never done more than glance at the house, as I went by with
>       that name;

WTF?

So you are the one that's been sending out the nonsensical emails . . .

that explains sooooooo much.
Adam Helberg - 15 Oct 2005 23:48 GMT
>>       pretty nigh in - not properly born, till flood. Hes a going out and
> a half. My
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> that explains sooooooo much.

I'm just staying on topic.
Dennis Willson - 02 Nov 2005 01:13 GMT
>My son and I are in the process of getting certified.  I am looking to
>purchase a new BCD for him on his birthday. Any suggestions on what to buy
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>  

It really depends on the type of diving your going to be doing. I have 3
BCDs for different occasions. When I travel to warm water destinations I
use the SeaQuest PassPort. It packs down really small and is very light
weight. It has most of the features of the bigger BCDs. I use a Zeagle
Ranger diving in the local, cool Northern California (monterey) waters.
Diving here even when diving pure recreation is a bit more technical
than when I dive in the Florida Keys or Cozumel and so-forth. Plus I use
more wieght in cold water (due to the extra boyancy of my thicker
wetsuit) and I split that wieght between the integrated wieght pockets
and my DUI wieght and trim belt which I don't do when diving warm water.

BCDs can be a very personal thing. However it can be difficult to get
some shops to rent you higher end BCDs so you can get a real good idea
of what is best for you. I, for example, bought one of the SeaQuest
Fusion BCDs when they first came out. Seemed great in the store... I
HATED DIVING IN IT and replaced it with the PassPort which I really like.

Anyway... regardless of what anyone tells you, there's no one way to go.
What works best for one, doesn't always work best for someone else. Keep
an open mind when listening to all the advice. If someone is too
forceful that there's a very narrow "correct" gear selection (like
Backplate and Wings) then they're probably giving a emotional
recommendation.

Dennis
YellowRoseCozumel - 08 Nov 2005 19:46 GMT
john,
read under "back inflation bcd"- I just posted there.  Your son will not
outgrow the backplate/harness setup- he will simply adjust it.  Quite
possibly, he won't need any weight either- depending on diving conditions.
Safe diving to you!

>My son and I are in the process of getting certified.  I am looking to
>purchase a new BCD for him on his birthday. Any suggestions on what to buy
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>advice you may provide.
>John

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