 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeArticlesDiving DestinationsLearning Scuba DivingMarine LifeMiscellaneousDiscussion GroupsGeneralScuba EquipmentScuba LocationsAustralian ScubaUK ScubaDirectoryScuba Clubs |
Scuba Forum / Scuba Equipment / November 2004Choice of Tank color for visibality
I am just getting back into SCUBA and bringing the whole family this time. I am looking to purchase all basic equipment and one of my concerns is visibility, particularly the ability to see each other at the greatest range. We are located in north New York State (USA) so most of our diving locally will be fresh water of moderate to low visibility. Given the size of the tank, I assume that the choice of tank color could make a significant difference in visibility. The information I have seen on color penetration of water may not be applicable to dark waters. Are there any recommendations or guidelines in this regard? Loony Tunes <loonytunesNOSPAM@nycap.rr.com> pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :I am looking to purchase all basic equipment and one of my concerns is :visibility, particularly the ability to see each other at the greatest [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] : :Are there any recommendations or guidelines in this regard? Yellow is the easiest colour to see underwater. Lime green is also good. Blue is not bad. Regarding visibility, the colour of your fins is more significant than the colour of your tanks. Dan Bracuk Is it my imagination, or do Buffalo Wings taste like chicken? The Best of rec.scuba http://www.pathcom.com/~bracuk/RecScuba/ >:Are there any recommendations or guidelines in this regard? > Yellow is the easiest colour to see underwater. Lime green is also > good. Blue is not bad. But a Orage/Yellow drysuite goes evev further in visibility. (White tanks are ok to.) In Low-viz ala sweden blue is as good as black in visibility. It melts in good with the enviroment. / Balp  Signaturehttp://anders.arnholm.nu/ Keep on Balping >the size of the tank, I assume that the choice of tank color could make >a significant difference in visibility. The information I have seen on >color penetration of water may not be applicable to dark waters. > >Are there any recommendations or guidelines in this regard? Galvanized is going to turn white. Yellow is going to turn white. Blue is going to get darker. Red is going to turn black. If there's no light, there's no light. Particulate matter coupled with no light compounds the problem. The tank color will only help if you never take your eyes off of it. Why would you be too far from your buddy to be able to see or touch them when in low viz? The solution is to get BRIGHT lights with a good, solid, sharp beam. 10 or 18 watt HID looks like a lightsaber and is FAR easier to see at geater distances than a colored piece of equipment. The little C4 is neat for looking in holes, but useless for signalling in low viz. --- Rich http://richlockyer.tripod.com/ > Why would you be too far from your buddy to be able to see or touch > them when in low viz? Right. > The solution is to get BRIGHT lights with a good, solid, sharp beam. > 10 or 18 watt HID looks like a lightsaber and is FAR easier to see at > geater distances than a colored piece of equipment. The little C4 is > neat for looking in holes, but useless for signalling in low viz. What a shame you had to follow the correct response with this junk. Lee >Are there any recommendations or guidelines in this regard? I own and dive Yellow, White and galvanized, and I have chased and dived with all the other standard colors. White is (by far) the most visible under almost all conditions. I haven't seen the conditions where some other color (yellow) is better, I just assume they exist somewhere. safe diving, bullshark Flourescent colors, esp yellow-green work well at depth because they take the ultraviolet (which punches through water even better than blue) and change it to another color. On the surface: hot pink. I've got a friend with hot pink tanks, and when she pops up, she is instantly visible, even a quarter mile a way. No question of diver vs sea lion, it's KATHY. However, my personal choice is galvanized. They look the same after ten years as new, no paint chips, and they don't dominate photographs. >>Are there any recommendations or guidelines in this regard? > I own and dive Yellow, White and galvanized, and I have chased and dived [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > bullshark >>Are there any recommendations or guidelines in this regard? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > bullshark I disagree. By using a tank that's, say, bright yellow, you're removing some of the background colors and therefore enhancing certain others. Saying that white is the best under all conditions is flat out wrong. A bright orange or yellow tank will be far more visible than a white tank in murky water, no question whatsoever. Try Yellow fins also if you want to be seen. You would be suprised how good you can see them in murky water. Tom O'Brien Newport Diving Center http://www.newportdivingcenter.com/ 550 Thames Street Newport, RI 02840 Tel: 401-837-9293 Fax: 401-847-1346 >>>Are there any recommendations or guidelines in this regard? >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > bright orange or yellow tank will be far more visible than a white tank in > murky water, no question whatsoever. > Try Yellow fins also if you want to be seen. [snicker] Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > Saying that white is the best under all conditions is flat out wrong. A > bright orange or yellow tank will be far more visible than a white tank > in murky water, no question whatsoever. The realy depend on the dpeth and visility, a yellow or orange think will reflect more of the red light and less of the other colors. When red light get scares, (below five to ten meters around here. They will only reflect the green color and there for blend in quite well. Trick question why does blood look green underwater? / Balp Signaturehttp://anders.arnholm.nu/ Keep on Balping >>Saying that white is the best under all conditions is flat out wrong. A >>bright orange or yellow tank will be far more visible than a white tank [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Trick question why does blood look green underwater? Because "red" is the first color that is filtered underwater. Additionally, it doesn't look green, it looks brown. Basic Open water book stuff. Signature"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying that I approved of it." ”- Mark Twain >> Trick question why does blood look green underwater? > > Because "red" is the first color that is filtered underwater. > Additionally, it doesn't look green, it looks brown. > > Basic Open water book stuff. 1. That explains why it doesn't look red, not why it does look green. 2. Mine looks green, so did the blood of the last fish I shot through the gills. The shark that came to investigate looked gray. Lee >>>Trick question why does blood look green underwater? >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > 1. That explains why it doesn't look red, not why it does look green. I havn't seen blood at depth. I just going by what I have read. > 2. Mine looks green, so did the blood of the last fish I shot through the > gills. The shark that came to investigate looked gray. You part Vulcan? :) I would guess it is related to depth and the amount of light that makes it to a specific depth. Also the spectrum of light at a specific depth. Andy > Lee Signature"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying that I approved of it." ”- Mark Twain >> 2. Mine looks green, so did the blood of the last fish I shot through the >> gills. The shark that came to investigate looked gray. > > You part Vulcan? :) > I would guess it is related to depth and the amount of light that makes it > to a specific depth. Also the spectrum of light at a specific depth. I could be. I'm part everything else. My ancestors were Scottish, English and American Indian on one side, settlers long before there was such a thing as the United States and a mix of American Indian (different kind) and Hienz 57 on the other side. Dad's a bit of a redneck. The only thing pure about me is my love for Jayna. Lee >>>Are there any recommendations or guidelines in this regard? >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >Saying that white is the best under all conditions is flat out wrong. A Did you read my post, or are you just dense? safe diving, bullshark > I am just getting back into SCUBA and bringing the whole family this time. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Are there any recommendations or guidelines in this regard? Thanks all. It isn't so much a case of getting too far away from a buddy, but rather papa duck wants the best chance to catch sight of an errant duckling.. Also I have been diving in local waters (25-30 years ago) and so know what low visibility is like. Mama bear and Goldilocks haven't. Being better able see one another will mean one less thing to concern a neophyte. > It isn't so much a case of getting too far away from a > buddy, but rather papa duck wants the best chance to catch sight of an > errant duckling.. We don't need ducklings who need to be watched, and we don't need anyone who thinks tank color will help anything. It's one of the marks of ignorance, particularly once it's been explained to you. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 >> I am just getting back into SCUBA and bringing the whole family this >> time. I am looking to purchase all basic equipment and one of my concerns [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> >> Are there any recommendations or guidelines in this regard? Yellow is the most visible color underwater and probably the best choice. When your choice of color for most SCUBA gear was black I painted the bottom of my fins yellow so people could follow me more easily and recieved frequent comments about it. A couple of years ago I was doing a class in very limited visibility and one of the other instructors had gloves with yellow finger tips. They always showed up first. However if it's identification rather than visibilty that you are after just pick some color that few people like and put some big decals on the things. Also ignore Mr Macho aka Jammer six, he had to use his MA after the title. >> I am just getting back into SCUBA and bringing the whole family this >> time. >> >> I am looking to purchase all basic equipment and one of my concerns is >> visibility, >>particularly the ability to see each other at the greatest >> range. ..."greatest range"...Now that is the part that got my attention. > Thanks all. It isn't so much a case of getting too far away from a > buddy, but rather papa duck wants the best chance to catch sight of an > errant duckling.. OK, now you got my attention again, "catch sight and errant", red flags. How "errant" do we expect the duckling to be? A serious question to ask yourself here, I'm not trying to pick on you. > Also I have been diving in local waters (25-30 years > ago) and so know what low visibility is like. Mama bear and Goldilocks > haven't. Being better able see one another will mean one less thing to > concern a neophyte. Ok, here's some ideas for increasing your visibility: Go to an online scuba store or your shop's light section and look at yoke lights and marker lights. These lights often come in various colors and can help you identify each other in low light or moderately low viz situations. Yoke lights are often less visible than the marker lights are, they are usually not as bright and you have to be behind the diver, rather than along side them to see them. These lights might give a bit of reassurance to someone new to low viz diving, but they shouldn't be used to allow more distance between you or take the place of safe diving practice. Beware of the white strobe lights that may look similar in size, the rest of us don't want to see a lighthouse moving underwater. Definitely ruins a night dive! White or yellow fins stand out more than a tank. If you can't find bright fins you like, you can take white paint markers and put big initials or happy face or the like on the bottom of dark colored fins to give them some better visibility. Some BCDs have light reflective strips, bright pink, yellow, or green on the wing or jacket. I've seen black wetsuits finished in white overlock stitching on the seams, ugly yes, but was easy to identify. If your Goldilocks is under the age of 18 please check out this site. Heck, go anyways, it is maintained by a biochemist at University of Michigan's School of Medicine and contains much good information on scuba diving: http://www.mindspring.com/~divegeek/ Make sure you you don't miss this article about kids and diving on the above site, anyone considering taking their kid diving should at least read the information contained here: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~lpt/kids.htm And, even though it comes off sounding harsh, I think the response from Jammer Six is right on the money. If anyone -needs- watching, they -don't need- to dive. Don't expect deficits in knowledge/safety to be filled by -anything- you can buy. Thanks for the considered response it has been helpful. It is difficult sometimes to ascertain the level of humor that a particular newsgroup conveys. Given all the OT stuff in the scuba groups, I assumed that a little levity was acceptable. By nature I am a bit sarcastic. Rest assured when it comes to activities that my family becomes involved with, I am very serious. I am going through the Navy Diving Manual right now as there is a lot I don't know. There will be three of us and that may make coordination more difficult especially early on. With time we will learn it, but there is always a chance that we will separate, especially during the first few dives as we will all be learning/practicing basic skills. Anything that can assist in keeping us in better contact should be considered. This lead to the question about color visibility. We do plan to dive with a local scuba group to gain experience. Even so, I am trying to anticipate and plan/allow for as many eventualities as possible. I like the light idea and was looking into them already. The site on Kids diving is interesting thanks for the concern. I was aware of many of the issues it brought up but it did have a couple of new ones. My daughter has been after me for better than 2 years for lessons after snorkeling at Penekamp. I refused to let her have a quickly course at a resort as I feel proper instruction is the only correct/safe way to learn scuba. We finally found a course that she could take that wouldn't interfere with school (YMCA). My wife took the course also and I decided to retake it as it has been quite a while since I dove. As for swimming skills, both my wife and daughter have many years of instruction and are strong swimmers. My daughter is 14 and, per the URL, her thought processes are still maturing though she is farther along the road to adulthood than many adults. She has a scientific/math bent and has been jumped a year in math and science by her school. She also studies the ecology and pollution of a local stream on weekends. I mention this not to brag but to clarify my statement about her analytical thinking capability. At 5 foot 8 inches /130 lbs she is also large, strong, and fit. As to Jammer Six, I first took him for a Troll (they do live under bridges so I would expect divers to encounter a lot of them) Your comments and those of others indicate that this may not be correct assessment. His comment about ignorance doesn't warrant rejoinder, but his use of the word "we" as in "We don't need..." conveys a picture of narrow minded elitism, something I am sure he didn't mean to portray. Perhaps he just had a bad day. I note further down the thread that civility seems to be evaporating. Why is it that when people assume the cloak of anonymity they start to become rude. It was only a question about color, why get so hostile? They say an armed society is a polite society. The Internet seems to prove it's antithesis. I don't mean to lecture, and I know I am preaching to the choir, but such behavior causes many not to post questions on public fouums. Again, thanks for the information > As to Jammer Six, I first took him for a Troll (they do live under bridges > so I would expect divers to encounter a lot of them) Your comments and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Again, thanks for the information Jammer is always like that. At least he is consistent. > Anything that can assist in keeping us in better contact should be > considered. Bullshit. There's a bunch of things you should never consider. Perhaps you'll run into some of them, without recognizing them for what they are. I get their lunches. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > € Anything that can assist in keeping us in better contact should be > € considered. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I get their lunches. Fine... What do Trolls like to eat??? >There will be three of us and that may make coordination more difficult >especially early on. With time we will learn it, but there is always a >chance that we will separate, especially during the first few dives as >we will all be learning/practicing basic skills. Anything that can >assist in keeping us in better contact should be considered. This lead >to the question about color visibility. Probably a good reason not to dive in threesomes then. It dramatically increases the odds of separation, esp in a combination of murk and surge. The best method I've found is to have a buddy pair follow a lead diver, but the guy in front (me) is effectively soloing. Not a good plan for your reintroduction dives. SignatureJason O'Rourke www.jor.com > Probably a good reason not to dive in threesomes then. It dramatically increases > the odds of separation, esp in a combination of murk and surge. The best method > I've found is to have a buddy pair follow a lead diver, but the guy in front > (me) is effectively soloing. Not a good plan for your reintroduction dives. Kinda what I was thinking. I am planning a few FL dives next summer. Visability will be much better so we should be able to get a little practice in. >From: Loony Tunes loonytunesNOSPAM@nycap.rr.com >I note further down the thread that civility seems to be evaporating. >Why is it that when people assume the cloak of anonymity they start to >become rude. We all know eachother quite well. That we are unknown to you does not make us anonymous. If you stick it out long enough (you're doing pretty good so far), you'll get to know us, too. Contrast (contrasting patterns) will stick out, fins more so that tanks (movement?). Color won't mean squat on tanks, especially at depth, especially in low viz. >It was only a question about color, why get so hostile? Slow day. >I don't mean to lecture, and I know I am preaching to the choir, but >such behavior causes many not to post questions on public fouums. We don't care. The information is here if you're man enough to get it. We don't owe you anything. If someone can't take the heat, it's not our problem. >Again, thanks for the information We have lots more, if you can stand the gaff. Safe diving, and be careful with the 14 yr old. Underwater, any of us trolls would risk our lives to protect her. Popeye The Greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convincing the world he didn't exist. Kaiser Sose > Underwater, any of us trolls would risk our lives to protect her. Speak for yourself. Sailors. Jesus. Signature"I know we're going to die. There's three of us who are going to do something about it." -Tom Burnett, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 Signature________________________________________ We're sure George W. Bush is not in bed with big oil. If he were, we'd be paying $1.78 a gallon for regular. > > ? Underwater, any of us trolls would risk our lives to protect her. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Jesus. > ? Underwater, any of us trolls would risk our lives to protect her. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Jesus. Did I call it or what? Lee > Safe diving, and be careful with the 14 yr old. > > Underwater, any of us trolls would risk our lives to protect her. Any but Jammer. If she wasn't his buddy, he wouldn't even notice her. > Thanks for the considered response it has been helpful. > It is difficult sometimes to ascertain the level of humor that a > particular newsgroup conveys. Given all the OT stuff in the scuba > groups, I assumed that a little levity was acceptable. By nature I am a > bit sarcastic. IMO, rec.scuba can convey quite a bit of humor...I'm wondering how much participation rec.scuba.sarcasm or rec.scuba.bitter would get though... >Rest assured when it comes to activities that my family > becomes involved with, I am very serious. I am going through the Navy > Diving Manual right now as there is a lot I don't know. I downloaded it. I read parts of it. You are doing well to read all you can, but getting in the water and getting experience is most helpful. If you can hook up with an experienced diver or group, you will find you can really make some progress in your skills. Since the level of instruction is not what it used to be in some cases, maybe someone from your general area can give a bit of direction. I have seen instructors/groups that you -do not- want to emulate. Looks like Jon C. is in your area, perhaps he can steer you towards a safety oriented group of divers. > There will be three of us and that may make coordination more difficult > especially early on. Yep, this can more difficult. It would be great if you could add a 4th, experienced diver to your group so that you could pair off. Consider doing some quarry diving to practice basic skills. They usually provide training platforms and underwater markers of some kind. If your navigation is off the mark, it is no big deal because it is an easy surface swim to the edge with no current. Consider assigning positions, e.g. at your left side or whatever you decide on. In this way, quick glances to your left should always give you reassurance that she is doing fine, and she knows you are always to her right. It might also be helpful if you and and your wife could get in a bit of experience first as a pair without daughter. The first 20 dives can make for a huge improvement in basic things such as buoyancy and ascents. Buoyancy and rapid ascents are often issues in accidents and fatalities if you read DAN statistics, and with the reduced viz, additional weight, and heavy exposure protection you have in your area, it will help very much to make improvements in these 2 areas. >With time we will learn it, but there is always a > chance that we will separate, especially during the first few dives as > we will all be learning/practicing basic skills. Those same DAN statistics include too many solo/separated divers. My suggestions for those first few dives would be - Practice over a hard bottom no more than 60 ft. of depth and spend more time making visual contact with each other so that no one is left to go solo. If one of you get caught on some debris in the water and gets left behind and unable to free themselves, how easy will it be to find them in the murk? Assign positions. Make rules. Make plans. Follow them. Of course, separation is -possible-, just make it an extremely remote possibility and make rules about what you will do if separation occurs. I know it sounds pretty rigid, but these are the kinds of things that will make your dives safer in a moderately low viz than any equipment you can purchase. > Anything that can > assist in keeping us in better contact should be considered. That would be your brains. > This lead > to the question about color visibility. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > aware of many of the issues it brought up but it did have a couple of > new ones. They were discussed to a great extent on rec.scuba some time ago. Google ought to be able to bring up the discussions if you are interested. Dr. Harris has most all of the issues on his site, I don't remember if he addresses bone formation and diving, but I know he addresses PFO's, clearing difficulties, ear problems, and some discussion of concrete thinking vs. abstract thinking. > My daughter has been after me for better than 2 years for lessons after > snorkeling at Penekamp. I refused to let her have a quickly course at a > resort as I feel proper instruction is the only correct/safe way to > learn scuba. As adults we are responsible for ourselves, but with kids, we are the ones with the responsibility of making decisions promoting their safety and well being. It is not always the road to popularity with them, as I am sure you know ;) We finally found a course that she could take that > wouldn't interfere with school (YMCA). My wife took the course also and > I decided to retake it as it has been quite a while since I dove. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > to clarify my statement about her analytical thinking capability. At 5 > foot 8 inches /130 lbs she is also large, strong, and fit. It's perfectly ok to brag, she sounds like a good kid. > As to Jammer Six, I first took him for a Troll (they do live under > bridges so I would expect divers to encounter a lot of them) Your [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > narrow minded elitism, something I am sure he didn't mean to portray. > Perhaps he just had a bad day. LOL, or he might be a narrow minded elitist who doesn't care what he portrays. It doesn't necessarily make his statement any less correct, however. > I note further down the thread that civility seems to be evaporating. > Why is it that when people assume the cloak of anonymity they start to > become rude. It was only a question about color, why get so hostile? Many of the divers here know each other in real life, and by their real names. They just don't let it hamper an argument. Color is as good a reason as anything. > They say an armed society is a polite society. The Internet seems to > prove it's antithesis. Sshh...they like gun threads almost as much as diving. > I don't mean to lecture, and I know I am preaching to the choir, but > such behavior causes many not to post questions on public fouums. They won't care. They've answered the same questions ad nauseum. There are more polite boards, monitored groups, or whatever for those who are interested in those types of things. If someone gives some dumb advice, they might not get jumped on in one of those places. I prefer it here. There is alot of noise:content lately, but if someone posts bullshit, it gets called bullshit. > Again, thanks for the information You're welcome, I hope you and your family enjoy many great dives together. Thanks for taking the time for the informative response. I will try to conform to local rules of behavior, should be simple enough as there don't seem to be many. As to guns, just got through teaching a firearms class to a group of 4-H kids. When you give a kid responsability it is great to watch them rise to accept it, though I will be the first to agree that not everyone is ready to accept the necessary responsability. This applies to adults as well.... > I will try to conform to local rules of behavior, should be simple > enough as there don't seem to be many. Oh, a liar. You'll probably fit right in. At least, with the strokes and deaders. Say hi to the doc. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > Thanks for taking the time for the informative response. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > ready to accept the necessary responsability. This applies to adults as > well.... Nice to hear the 4-H is still alive and well. Nicer to hear somebody's taking the time to teach kids to handle guns safely and responsibly. Lee >> It is difficult sometimes to ascertain the level of humor that a >> particular newsgroup conveys. Given all the OT stuff in the scuba >> groups, I assumed that a little levity was acceptable. By nature I am a >> bit sarcastic. You and the rest of us. Problem sometimes is, we know each other and what to expect. We don't know you as well. >>Rest assured when it comes to activities that my family becomes involved >>with, I am very serious. I am going through the Navy Diving Manual right >>now as there is a lot I don't know. That's a good source, but so is this group. If you have specific questions, or not so specific, feel free to ask, suggest, whatever. The list really could use some more scuba content and it's not likely to come from the regulars. >> There will be three of us and that may make coordination more difficult >> especially early on. Threesomes are a tough act for new divers. Somebody almost always gets the short end of it. They work a lot better when at least one of the divers is significantly more experiences. He then becomes the solo diver, kind of keeping an eye on the buddy pair of less experienced divers. For three relatively inexperienced divers, I recommend sticking very close to one another, within touching distance. If you're only a little careful, you can have a great dive with three acting, more or less, as one. > Yep, this can more difficult. It would be great if you could add a 4th, > experienced diver to your group so that you could pair off. Consider > doing some quarry diving to practice basic skills. Good advice. Consider diving wherever you can. The more time you spend in the water, the more comfortable and natural diving will become. >They usually provide training platforms and underwater markers of some >kind. If your navigation is off the mark, it is no big deal because it is >an easy surface swim to the edge with no current. If you're a confined water diver, coming to dive in any tidal waters, the ocean, for example, your navigation is going to be off more often than on. Be careful. It takes experience, sometimes a lot of it, to be able to adjust for current without thinking about it. >>With time we will learn it, but there is always a chance that we will >>separate, especially during the first few dives as we will all be >>learning/practicing basic skills. If you plan not to separate, you won't separate. Good diving does not happen by chance. Lee >If you plan not to separate, you won't separate. Good diving does not >happen by chance. The opposite is truer - not planning is bad. But there are conditions out there that tend towards separation of even the best of divers. Either you opt not to dive there and then, or you be prepared for it happening and have a plan for that as well. SignatureJason O'Rourke www.jor.com >>If you plan not to separate, you won't separate. Good diving does not >>happen by chance. > The opposite is truer - not planning is bad. But there are conditions out > there that tend towards separation of even > the best of divers. Either you opt not to dive there and then, or you be > prepared for it happening and have a plan > for that as well. Ummm, I don't think this is the opposite. >I am just getting back into SCUBA and bringing the whole family this time. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Are there any recommendations or guidelines in this regard? Sure. If you're just getting back into scuba and you are bringing your family with you, learn to stay close enough to one another for the color of your tank not to matter. Lee > I am just getting back into SCUBA and bringing the whole family this > time. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Are there any recommendations or guidelines in this regard? Fluorescent colors have my vote, both for tanks and fins. I agree with the poster about fins because the movement will catch one's eye quicker. After dawdling on a photo subject and trying to rejoin my buddy, his bright yellow fins seemed like strobes flashing as I caught up to him. Chasing a lost fin in the surf works out a lot better if it's a bright color, too! 8^) Dave C (Please note- the above email address is defunct) Source/supplier of PURE TALC for drysuit latex seals. If interested, contact dcalderbankATcheshireDOTnet, or check eBay auctions (eBay ID dave4868). Thanks. Fluorescent colors will give the best vis, if you dont mind glowing, but if you want a standard "color" white is the best one. Rembember ROYGBIV, non-fluorescent colors are lost in the first 30 to 40 feet and become "dark" (ever see blood at 40'), but white is alway white and will give great contrast. -- John A I seem to recall that Cousteau chose YELLOW for greatest visibility. I suspect it stands out better than white. SignatureCharlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying) All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. >I suspect it stands out better than white. Your suspicions would be wrong. Perhaps you should rely on experience instead of a French Marketing agency for your information. What color is white? What colors does white reflect? What colors does yellow reflect? I have both colors of tanks. I dive every weekend. I have hundreds of dives on both. I dive with other divers using those colors and others as well. White shows first, every time. But any idiot knows you'll see the bubbles before you see any tanks. safe diving, bullshark >White shows first, every time. I guess that explains why fire engines are painted white! ..oh, wait -- they'r not, are they? They're painted red, traditionally, or yellow for better visibility. >But any idiot knows you'll see the bubbles before you see any tanks. And those idiots are allowed to express their opinion. SignatureCharlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying) All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. >>White shows first, every time. > >I guess that explains why fire engines are painted white! I don't see many fire engines underwater hammy, how about you? I would guess that's because RED sucks for U/W visibility. FYI, all the Fire/rescue trucks in my [home]town (Glen Echo MD) were white until the early 1990s, when COST forced them to change. You do realize that we're talking about scuba diving here? Is it now your position that RED is a more highly visible color underwater? Do you think that the choice of colors for fire trucks has any effect on the reflectivity of light underwater? Yellow is traditional, nothing more. It is pleasing as well. Blue/Gold is one of the most popular decorating motifs on the planet, and it is not about visiblity. >>But any idiot knows you'll see the bubbles before you see any tanks. >And those idiots are allowed to express their opinion. Yes they are, but suggesting a French marketing agency is an authority on anything but self promotion is highly frowned upon. You expressed no opinion. You deferred to a feeble authority and then cast suspicions. Both of which suggest that you don't have much experience to draw on. So...how many white tanks do you own? safe diving, bullshark >>>White shows first, every time. >> >>I guess that explains why fire engines are painted white! > > I don't see many fire engines underwater hammy, how about you? > I would guess that's because RED sucks for U/W visibility. Underwater fire engines are not common but not unheard of either. http://www.dutchsprings.com/vehicles_subm.html#17 Andy Signature"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying that I approved of it." ”- Mark Twain >I don't see many fire engines underwater ... I thought that was too obvious to require stating it. Guess I'm wrong again! {sigh} O.K., to put aside name-calling -- relax -- only temporarily! -- We are confusing "brightness" -- the amount of light reflected -- with "visibility" -- how eaily we see something. Certainly, if the finishes are similar, a white color will reflect more light. However, yellow is more easily perceived by human eyes/brains. This is why most modern fire engines are painted yellow. BTW, I know for a fact that ONLY yellow fire engines respond to undewater fires. So there! SignatureCharlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying) All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. > This is why most modern fire engines are painted yellow. There are some areas where lime green is still being used and one of our 30 plus years old engines was painted yellow (we finally got rid of it and the newer ones are green soon to be painted red) Most departments are going back to red and white or white and red but any color goes. One department has black trucks and engines. *IF* anybody sees us it is because of the lights during the day and the reflective stripes during the night. The reflective stripes are the most important. Most vehicles have far more lights than required by law. Our culture knows that fire engines are red and even in cities where no child has ever seen anything but lime green, in school, when they draw pictures they are red. That's nice, but the color of fire engines has nothing to do with what is visible at 40-130 feet. Nothing beats a flashing light at those depths. >>This is why most modern fire engines are painted yellow. > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > child has ever seen anything but lime green, in school, when they draw > pictures they are red. >> White shows first, every time. > > I guess that explains why fire engines are painted white! > > ..oh, wait -- they'r not, are they? > They're painted red, traditionally, or yellow for better visibility. Fire engines and trucks are painted all kinds of colors. White is *very* common. The ugly lime green was determined to be the best color several years ago but even in cities where kids have never seen a red engine they paint fire trucks red. The engine we just got rid of was yellow, we have two red ones and two green one. The city to the north of us uses white. Red is a horrible color as it all but disappears at night even when well lit. Today, the fire service makes no real recommendation about color and little about lights but does insist on highly reflective 3M type stripes all over the things. *If* the looky-loo citizen sees the thing, they will see the reflectors. .. >Today, the fire service makes no real recommendation about color and little >about lights but does insist on highly reflective 3M type stripes all over .. This is a good point. If you are serioulsy concerned about being seen, you could put reflective tape on your tanks. Sounds like overkill to me, especially for recreational diving, but it shoudl work. SignatureCharlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying) All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. >>I suspect it stands out better than white. > >Your suspicions would be wrong. Perhaps you should rely on experience instead >of a French Marketing agency for your information. Sheesh, when did Bullshark turn from a grump to a total a.shole? And did he start diving in lower viz? In California, white fins on a black wetsuit makes for a nice tuxedo like style. It does feel like one of, if not the, most visible. Hence I have black jetfins. But in a grey haze, yellow might stand out sooner. In night the reflectivity off a light probably goes back to white again. It's actually a problem for photographers, esp with the consumer digitals. Fins and tanks colors often blow out. SignatureJason O'Rourke www.jor.com > I am just getting back into SCUBA and bringing the whole family this time. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Are there any recommendations or guidelines in this regard? I find yellow and green are easier to see than most colors in the murky waters. I'm upstate also, in Albany. Whereabouts do you live? Jon .. >I find yellow and green are easier to see than most colors in the murky >waters. .. I assume that "green" is a bright, lime-green? Darker greens would fade quickly. SignatureCharlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying) All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. > I assume that "green" is a bright, lime-green? Darker greens would > fade quickly. Since I find I can't stay neutral on this issue, the color I've always been able to locate best under water is a slightly yellowish lime green. It's quite a common color for scuba equipment, probably because somebody else agrees with me. I've seen Bullshark's white tanks in and out of the water. The science of reflection and colors notwithstanding, I do not find them easier to see. YMMV. Lee >> I assume that "green" is a bright, lime-green? Darker greens would >> fade quickly. > >Since I find I can't stay neutral on this issue, the color I've always been >able to locate best under water is a slightly yellowish lime green. .... O.K. Lee gets it. Anybody else? SignatureCharlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale FL USA (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying) All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. > I've seen Bullshark's white tanks in and out of the water. Lee, the last time you saw my white tanks in the water, was October 3, 2002, for a very late afternoon (duskish) dive, where your mask fogged up terminally, and according to you, you relied on the Ms. and I to guide your ascent because you could not see you computer. ...It's no small wonder you don't think you can see white tanks any better, ...you couldn't see anything at all. >The science of reflection and colors notwithstanding, I do not find them >easier to see. YMMV. My mileage varies greatly. Almost exactly 400 dives since then; how about you? safe diving, bullshark > Lee, the last time you saw my white tanks in the water, was > October 3, 2002, for a very late afternoon (duskish) dive, where your mask > fogged > up terminally, and according to you, you relied on the Ms. and I to guide > your ascent > because you could not see you computer. Actually, no. I didn't see your tanks that day. I did, however see your lights. Worst night dive of my life. >>The science of reflection and colors notwithstanding, I do not find them >>easier to see. YMMV. > My mileage varies greatly. Almost exactly 400 dives since then; how about > you? I don't know, maybe 50, give or take a bit. I'm not getting out nearly as often as I used to. My next scheduled dive is on Monday. I expect the waters to be 6-8, ocassionally a foot. Lee |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.