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Scuba Forum / Scuba Equipment / October 2004

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Halcyon ABC mounting - how?

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HKN - 18 Oct 2004 18:58 GMT
Hi there,

I've just bought a set of the Halcyon Active Ballast Control (weight
pouches), but I'm not quite sure how to mount them to the BP.

Maybe it's because my BP don't have extra slides for it?

Does anybody here know how to?

Best regards,

Henrik
Charlie Hammond - 18 Oct 2004 19:26 GMT
>I've just bought a set of the Halcyon Active Ballast Control (weight
>pouches), but I'm not quite sure how to mount them to the BP.

I think they mount to the waist belt, not to the back plate.
They should have a slot or loops to thread on the belt.

BUT...

These may be Halcyon's finest example of overly complex engineering.
If the dealer will take them back, I suggest you do so.  Purchase
some simple pockets from DiveRite or Halcyon -- often called
"trim weight pockets" or something similar.  
Cheaper, smaller, simpler, better.  The "K.I.S.S." principle.

I currently dive with 8 lbs.  I have two pockets on my waist belt
and two more on my uppper cam band.  2 lbs in each of these, but
I could use up to 5 lb weights for a total of up to 20 lbs --
although I'd not expect to need nearly that much.  

This setup gives me both proper bouyancy AND proper trim.  
Half the weight is readily ditcable, which is plenty.

If you are diving in situations where more weight is required,
I suggest you use a seperate weight belt.

Signature

     Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USA
         (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
     All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

Lee Bell - 18 Oct 2004 21:51 GMT
> I've just bought a set of the Halcyon Active Ballast Control (weight
> pouches), but I'm not quite sure how to mount them to the BP.
> Maybe it's because my BP don't have extra slides for it?
> Does anybody here know how to?

The best way to mount them is to mount them in a package and send it back
for a refund.  The Halcyon ABC system is possibly the worst product they've
every marketed . . . except perhaps for the soft keel weight.

If you're not willing to take that advice, then yes, I know how to mount the
system.  You thread it onto your waist strap, one on each side.  The right
one has the strap and buckle on it.  The left one goes behind the D ring on
the left side.  As I recall, there are a couple of holes in the units for
attaching them to plate.  I don't remember whether they are straps that go
through the slots or holes that are attached to the holes in the plate.
Either way, it should be pretty obvious.

Lee
Adam Helberg - 18 Oct 2004 23:45 GMT
>> I've just bought a set of the Halcyon Active Ballast Control (weight
>> pouches), but I'm not quite sure how to mount them to the BP.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Lee

Unfortunately there is no great way to mount weights on the belt of the BP harness.

Adam
Lee Bell - 19 Oct 2004 01:19 GMT
> Unfortunately there is no great way to mount weights on the belt of the BP
> harness.

I don't know if I'd call it great, but there is a way.  Charlie Hammond uses
the Dive Rite pockets.  I use the Halcyon version, the ones they call trim
pockets.  When I use them (only when wearing a wetsuit) I put 2 lbs in each
one.  I'm not sure what they are capable of holding, but I'm sure it's more
than the 2 lbs I use.  At the time I bought mine, they were reasonably
priced.  Somebody discovered that fact and double the price just to ensure
mortals didn't buy them.  I suspect other manufacturers make something
similar.

Lee
Rudy Benner - 19 Oct 2004 01:33 GMT
>> Unfortunately there is no great way to mount weights on the belt of the
>> BP harness.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Lee

I tried the Dive Rite pockets first, then the Halcyon trim pockets, which
were better. They will hold a 4 pound block each. 6 pounds is too much.

A stainless steel BP and/or a weighted STA help help too. You really don't
need a lot of ditchable weight for warm water diving.

For cold water diving, I use the DUI weight system.

Rudy
Jason O'Rourke - 19 Oct 2004 09:15 GMT
>> Unfortunately there is no great way to mount weights on the belt of the BP
>> harness.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>mortals didn't buy them.  I suspect other manufacturers make something
>similar.

If one bought the ACB, it was to hold more than 4lbs.  For less than 10, I
clipped ankle weights to the valve and 2lb hard weights with dog clips to holes
at the bottom of the plate.  

The ACB was a compromise solution for those who need 20lbs of ditchable ballast.
A PITA getting on, esp with the canister, but fine in the water, aside from being
quite the kelp snag.  

Signature

Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

Charlie Hammond - 19 Oct 2004 13:46 GMT
>> Unfortunately there is no great way to mount weights on the belt of the BP
>> harness.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>one.  I'm not sure what they are capable of holding, but I'm sure it's more
>than the 2 lbs I use.  ...  

My wife has put at least 4 lbs in each or her's on occasion.
5 lb weights -- hard or soft -- fit and should work.
If you need more that 10 lbs total, put additional pockets
on the cam bands that hold your tank -- which will give you
better trim in the bargain.

>                  ... At the time I bought mine, they were reasonably
>priced.  Somebody discovered that fact and double the price just to ensure
>mortals didn't buy them.  ...

Damn bastards!

Signature

     Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USA
         (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
     All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

Charlie Hammond - 19 Oct 2004 13:43 GMT
>Unfortunately there is no great way to mount weights on the belt
>of the BP harness.

Funny, I know of at least three different weight (trim) pockets from two
different manufactureres that do the job well.  See my prior post for details

Signature

     Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USA
         (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
     All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

Adam Helberg - 20 Oct 2004 05:07 GMT
>>Unfortunately there is no great way to mount weights on the belt
>>of the BP harness.
>
> Funny, I know of at least three different weight (trim) pockets from two
> different manufactureres that do the job well.  See my prior post for details

I've tried two systems: OMS weight pockets and Zeagle trim pockets. Both use velcro
for ditching and both have problems.

For one thing the only attachment is on the waist belt and I have yet to find a
system that absolutely fixes the pockets without movement. Another problem is that I
like to affix a storage pocket on the waist belt and that leaves a space problem on
the waist belt. Of the two the Zeagle pockets are the better as the OMS are way too
bulky.

I suspect other makes of pockets attached to the waist belt suffer from similar
problems.

Adam
Charlie Hammond - 20 Oct 2004 14:44 GMT
>I've tried two systems: OMS weight pockets and Zeagle trim pockets. >
Both use velcro for ditching and both have problems.

>For one thing the only attachment is on the waist belt and I have yet
>to find a system that absolutely fixes the pockets without movement.

I don't find this a problem, but a tri-glide or two, properly placed,
should solve this, if necessary.

>Another problem is that I like to affix a storage pocket on the waist
>belt and that leaves a space problem on the waist belt.

Some would argue that the storage pocket is not needed and that it
is the problem.  If you must, you could consider placing either the
weight pockets or the storage pocket low on the shoulder strap.

Signature

     Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USA
         (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)
     All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.

Popeye NCAT3 - 20 Oct 2004 10:41 GMT
>From: "Adam Helberg" sendspamhere@yahoo.com

>Unfortunately there is no great way to mount weights on the belt of the BP
>harness.
>
>Adam

 Buy Diverite trim weight pockets.

 Works like a charm.

               
                                         Popeye  
      You have to know, not fear, that some day you are going to die.
   Until you know this and embrace it, you are useless. Tyler Durden
Rich Lockyer - 19 Oct 2004 08:01 GMT
>attaching them to plate.  I don't remember whether they are straps that go
>through the slots or holes that are attached to the holes in the plate.
>Either way, it should be pretty obvious.

Straps with holes in the end... bolt 'em to one of the lower outer
holes.

 --- Rich
 http://richlockyer.tripod.com/
Popeye NCAT3 - 20 Oct 2004 10:40 GMT
>From: "Lee Bell" leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com

>The best way to mount them is to mount them in a package and send it back
>for a refund.  The Halcyon ABC system is possibly the worst product they've
>every marketed .

 Absolutely.
               
                                         Popeye  
      You have to know, not fear, that some day you are going to die.
   Until you know this and embrace it, you are useless. Tyler Durden
Laser - 19 Oct 2004 00:41 GMT
>Hi there,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Henrik

The back of the pouch mounts to the corner holes in the BP, as it's
threaded on the waist belt. While I'm not a huge fan of the system, it
worked pretty well when I dove wet, but I've since sold them.

Laser
HKN - 19 Oct 2004 08:45 GMT
Thanks,

I was just confused, because the straps seems to be long enough to go
through the slots (where the harness is fixed) and back again, and then be
bolted to the plate. But if you do that, then there is no room for the
harness, so I was wondering if the Halcyon BP had extra slots for the ACBs.

Anyway, I'm lookin' forward to get rid of my belt :-)

-Henrik
Popeye NCAT3 - 20 Oct 2004 10:45 GMT
>From: "HKN" divegearfjern@dettewebspeed.dk
>Date: 10/19/2004 3:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Anyway, I'm lookin' forward to get rid of my belt :-)

 I got some stove bolts/wingnuts, theaded the ACBs thru the waist strap slot
and bolted the two ACB grommets together, in a loop.

 Then I dove them.

 Then I sold them.
               
                                         Popeye  
      You have to know, not fear, that some day you are going to die.
   Until you know this and embrace it, you are useless. Tyler Durden
Tommy Larsen [Scubagear ApS] - 20 Oct 2004 09:36 GMT
I use the Zeagle ZipTouch Weights / Backplate.
They can carry 20lbs(10lbs block slips right in) , bolts to the backplate
and slip onto the harness.
I have tried several other models, but these a holding the weights "upright"
so they leave room for both canister and d-ring.
easy to release and "refill". Best i have tried yet.

just my 25

Happy diving
Tommy
www.scubagear.dk

> Hi there,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Henrik
HKN - 20 Oct 2004 16:08 GMT
Well, I'm happy with my ACBs so far - and would never support the local
Zeagle dealer, who thinks he's selling rubber bands by the inch!

As I wrote, I was just confused about the strap on the pouches, and
wondering if the Halcyon BP had an extra slot for this strap.

Personally I think the DiveRites (which I looked at initially) looks cheap,
while my Halcyons are build to last.

Safe diving

Henrik
Bob Rowlette - 22 Oct 2004 00:03 GMT
>Hi there,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Henrik

Henrik,

I have to agree with Lee Bell here. Although Halcyon makes some
excellent products, the ACB is not one of them IMHO. There are other
ways to add ballast to your backplate and wing setup that are better
and don't cost nearly as much.

I use a stainless steel backplate for diving wet or dry which gives me
about 6 lbs (~3 Kg) of ballast. For warm-water ocean diving, I only
need a few more lbs of ballast. If I'm using a canister light, that
gives me the additional weight I need. If not, I use a weight pouch
where the canister would have been on the waist belt on the right.
Both of these solutions are easy to ditch in an emergency and provide
enough ditchable weight to have a balanced rig. A simple weight pouch
that slides over the harness waist belt is very inexpensive.

For cold-water diving, I always use a shell drysuit. For additional
ballast, I start by adding one of Scott Koplin's excellent weighted
single tank adapters, which adds another 6 lbs. Any additional weight
needed can be added as JOR suggested with weights added on or around
the tank.

To me, the ACB just adds drag and complexity that you don't want or
need.

-bob
 
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