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Scuba Forum / Scuba Equipment / October 2004Rockboots and jet fins
DIR dogma says wear jet fins with my rockboots. I'm not one to follow dogma, but I actually like the idea of having short & wide fins to maximize my maneuverability in the water, as I've started doing more videography. My problem is that jet fins don't seem to fit my size 8 rockboots at all: the large (a faux pas in DIRland, apparently) seems too small as only my toes really fit into the fin pocket and the strap doesn't come close to going around my heel, and the XL has too much side to side play in the pocket (and oddly enough I can still just barely get the strap around my heel). Even so, the contact with my foot seems sketchy at best, since the fin pocket is symmetrical on the top and bottom (most other fins have a larger cut into the top of the pocket to allow the foot to go in deeper). My question: any suggestions? I thought about getting the jet fins anyway and cutting the top of the pocket, but this seems less than optimal. Can anyone recommend any other traditional paddle fins along these lines? Thanks in advance. In article <Pine.GSO.4.44.0410150122370.22009-100000@elaine6.Stanford.EDU>, > DIR dogma says wear jet fins with my rockboots. No, it doesn't. > I'm not one to follow dogma, Particularly when said dogma requires knowledge and the effort to learn. > My problem is that jet fins don't seem to fit my size 8 rockboots at all: Funny, they fit my 9's. > My question: any suggestions? Yes. DIRF. Contempt prior to investigation is the mark of a fool.  Signature"I know we're going to die. There's three of us who are going to do something about it." -Tom Burnett, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 > > DIR dogma says wear jet fins with my rockboots. > No, it doesn't. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Contempt prior to investigation is the mark of a fool. Whoa, down boy. First of all, if it's contempt I conveyed, my apologies - I'm trying to dive DIR because I agree with many of the ideas. Already doing the backplate, long hose, and octo on my neck. Just looking for info on how to get the fins dialed. Everything I've read so far seems to indicate that the JetFins are the most popular fin among people who dive DIR - they offer more maneuverability/better frog kicking & reversing, the strap system doesn't have as many places to catch on line/kelp, etc. If that's not true, alternative recommendations would be much more constructive than snide comments. To reiterate from my last e-mail, it's not that my size 8 rockboots don't fit into the XL, it's that they have a great deal of side to side movement in the large foot pocket. Al, you said your setup works with JetFins and you have size 8 rockboots: do you not have problems with lateral motion? What exactly do you mean by "I have the right feet"? Do I need to wait for the next life to have a real chance at diving DIR? Tony: thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into the fins you mentioned. Charlie > > ? DIR dogma says wear jet fins with my rockboots. > No, it doesn't. It doesn't mention rockboots. I does say wear Jet Fins. > Whoa, down boy. First of all, if it's contempt I conveyed, my apologies - > I'm trying to dive DIR because I agree with many of the ideas. Already > doing the backplate, long hose, and octo on my neck. Just looking for > info on how to get the fins dialed. You were doing OK until you got to this point. Unless you are planning to dive with WKPP members, there's no particular merit to trying to be DIR. While there is considerable merit to considering DIR concepts and whether they are best for the diving you do, there's no point at all in adopting things, like jet fins, if they don't suit your diving. > Everything I've read so far seems to indicate that the JetFins are the > most popular fin among people who dive DIR - they offer more > maneuverability/better frog kicking & reversing, the strap system doesn't > have as many places to catch on line/kelp, etc. If that's not true, > alternative recommendations would be much more constructive than snide > comments. You got only one thing correct. They are popular among people who dive DIR. Everything else is a matter of considerable disagreement. Jet Fins work well in caves because they do not represent as much of a silt out risk as most other popular fins. They aren't as risky because they don't move as much water and, unless the laws of physics have been repealed, moving water is what moves the diver. They are not more maneuverable, they don't frog kick better and they don't reverse any better than a number of other options. The strap system is a non issue since DIR divers immediately change them out for aftermarket spring straps. Personally, I hate Jet Fins. I tried them when they first came out, long before most people in this group were diving. In fact, it was before some people in this group were born. I didn't like them then and I don't like them any better now. YMMV. Some people like them for all types of diving. Those that do, should use them . . . provided they really like them for the way they perform and not simply because a famous bunch of cave divers find them best for the diving they do. > To reiterate from my last e-mail, it's not that my size 8 rockboots don't > fit into the XL, it's that they have a great deal of side to side movement > in the large foot pocket. Al, you said your setup works with JetFins and > you have size 8 rockboots: do you not have problems with lateral motion? > What exactly do you mean by "I have the right feet"? Do I need to wait > for the next life to have a real chance at diving DIR? Better you should do a bit of experimenting and decide what is best for you based on the diving you do. That's what "experience" is all about. Lee In article <Pine.GSO.4.44.0410151009310.25432-100000@elaine6.Stanford.EDU>, > Whoa, down boy. Oh, good, you're finally here. We've been waiting for you. Now you can clean this group up, and keep things civil. Signature"We're going to rush the hijackers." -Jeremy Glick, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001 In article <Pine.GSO.4.44.0410150122370.22009-100000 @elaine6.Stanford.EDU>, cckim@Stanford.EDU says... > My question: any suggestions? I thought about getting the jet fins anyway > and cutting the top of the pocket, but this seems less than optimal. Can > anyone recommend any other traditional paddle fins along these lines? The problem is the rock boots. In a drysuit made for them, I have seen people successfully use wetsuit booties, but the real solution is the old style drysuit feet. You want XL jet fins. Anything else has a smaller fin. The difference is dramatic. I am size 8 and use XL fins. In a wetsuit, I use booties with thick soles, and in my drysuit, I have the right feet. As the Scubapro JetFins XL size is really only slightly larger than a normal L size, you could look at other brands of similar rubber 'jet-fins'. I don't mean those crappy split-jet fins, but ones that are almost identical to the original jetfins. Two other makes that come to mind are Northern Diver in the UK and Tusa, both make clone jetfins in original hard rubber. Northern Diver (and I believe others) also make these in larger sizes, such as XXL, and I've even seen them in colours other than black (that's obvioulsy not DIR and so you may be shot as a Scuba terrorist if you buy red fins). In addition the clone jetfins are about 2/3rds of the price of the Scubapro ones, however I don't think that the straps are as strong, so the use of spring straps is still wise (although they cost more than the bloody fins themselves!!). >As the Scubapro JetFins XL size is really only slightly larger than a normal >L size, You are seroiuusly misinformed. The XL's are about TWICE as BIG as the large. safe diving, bullshark safe diving, bullshark >>As the Scubapro JetFins XL size is really only slightly larger than a >>normal [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > bullshark Then the 'large' must be bloody tiny. Maybe the US are using their condom sizes for their fins? I've got XL jetfins and My drysuit boots are a UK size 9 (European 43, US size 10) and these fins only just fit the boots. If I had any larger size boots they would not fit. I don't feel that my feet are unusually large compared with a few fellow divers with size 11 or 12 feet. For quite some time Scubapro has not made (to my knowledge) any fins larger then XL, I even tried getting XXL Jetfins while in the US a couple of years ago, whereas other brands go up to XXL or even XXXL. In addition, the other brands are considerably cheaper, so as long as the rubber used is as rigid as the SC fins, there should be no reason not to buy them. >Then the 'large' must be bloody tiny. Maybe the US are using their condom >sizes for their fins? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >boots they would not fit. I don't feel that my feet are unusually large >compared with a few fellow divers with size 11 or 12 feet. He's talking about the fin itself. The Med and Large fins are WAY smaller than the XL fin. The XXL is a touch larger than the XL. The foot pockets are predictable... a size 9 wetsuit bootie fits in a large and a size 9 dryboot needs an XL. >For quite some time Scubapro has not made (to my knowledge) any fins larger >then XL, I even tried getting XXL Jetfins while in the US a couple of years >ago, whereas other brands go up to XXL or even XXXL. SP is now making an XXL that was designed to clear up to a size 14 DUI rockboot. It's a very tall pocket, but only a little wider than the XL. It's not as wide as a Turtle. The problem is, and walways has been, that SP has sized the Jetfin pocket about one size smaller than other fins... even their own. An XL jetfin is about the same pocket as a large Twinjet, or a fin from any other maker. --- Rich http://richlockyer.tripod.com/ > Two other makes that come to mind are Northern Diver in the UK and Tusa, > both make clone jetfins in original hard rubber. Northern Diver (and I > believe others) also make these in larger sizes, such as XXL, and I've even > seen them in colours other than black (that's obvioulsy not DIR and so you > may be shot as a Scuba terrorist if you buy red fins). Scubapro also made them is colors. I've seen yellow and pink Jet fins, and know a WKPP diver who delights in wearing his yellow ones. I think we're having a size terminology misunderstanding. Scubapro Jet Fins run small in foot size. Someone with a size 8 foot would use Large with normal wetsuit booties. A lot of people have feet too big for XL. However, the blade on the XL is way bigger than the blade on all of the other sizes. THe S, M and L are all the same blade size, but the XL is a lot bigger. >>Two other makes that come to mind are Northern Diver in the UK and Tusa, >>both make clone jetfins in original hard rubber. Northern Diver (and I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Scubapro also made them is colors. I've seen yellow and pink Jet fins, > and know a WKPP diver who delights in wearing his yellow ones. FWIW, Scubapro makes two styles of Jet fins. The black ones are the hardest material. The gray, yellow, and every other color are the same type of softer material. SignatureMore people died in Ted Kennedy's car than have been killed by my guns. > Scubapro also made them is colors. I've seen yellow and pink Jet fins, > and know a WKPP diver who delights in wearing his yellow ones. Blitch. Bastard outbid me on ebay when I wasn't looking. > Blitch. Bastard outbid me on ebay when I wasn't looking. Good to see you back here. Are you getting wet? >>Blitch. Bastard outbid me on ebay when I wasn't looking. > > Good to see you back here. Are you getting wet? Thanks, it's nice to be back. Well, it's nice to read SCUBA threads. Yes, I've started up again. Finally have a reasonable schedule and enough energy. Also, I've got a young colleague to whom I told stories over the last couple of years and he finally got enough money to get certified. Then he puppy-dogged me to death to get back in. Not that I needed much convincing. First time out I wasn't very comfortable. Still doing the leopard skin thing? > Yes, I've started up again. Finally have a reasonable schedule and > enough energy. Also, I've got a young colleague to whom I told stories > over the last couple of years and he finally got enough money to get > certified. Then he puppy-dogged me to death to get back in. Not that I > needed much convincing. First time out I wasn't very comfortable. Good deal, but maybe next time you'll move to where the water is warm. > Still doing the leopard skin thing? Cindy raises Bengal kittens (www.bengaland.com) The web site isn't Cindy's, but she is partners with these people. Cindy is a leopard skin fanatic - our curtains, furniture, everything... Again, glad to see you back al |
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